Pistol accuracy question.

[42769vette]

I did a little pistol shooting yesterday. I'm a far cry from a pistol marksman, but I keep running into the same issue, and hoped someone could shed some light on the topic.

Running a dueling tree at 10ish yds with a Glock 19 I notice that I take out the bottom 4 plates in 4 or 5 shots, but the top 2 always give me fits. This happens if I start from the top, or start from the bottom, and if I'm moving quickly, or taking my time.

WHY

Is their some technique I might need to work on?
Is my hold point different as I come to a more "level" position?

Its possible its just dumb luck, but it seams to "consistent" to be dumb luck.

Enlighten me.

 

[ghostdncr]

Hey Alan, are you using a Weaver or isocoles stance? I ask because this may be a sign of a minor muscular or skeletal impediment, since it makes no difference which target you shoot first. Switching stances may reveal this to be the case.

 

[rvb]

mental focus. happens all the time in competition. You get the first few plates and either start to think about how well you are doing vs thinking about your fundamentals or you start thinking you hit the first few easily so you start to speed up.

If there's the possibility for anything at all doing with the plate/gun, it could be that the top plates have a different back ground making it harder to resolve the plate edge and/or sights.

at 10 yds, there is nothing you can blame on balistics or the gun.

-rvb

 

[42769vette]

Hey Alan, are you using a Weaver or isocoles stance? I ask because this may be a sign of a minor muscular or skeletal impediment, since it makes no difference which target you shoot first. Switching stances may reveal this to be the case.

I really dont know. I dont focus much on my stance (mabye thats the problem). I figure if someone is shooting back Im not going to be able to stand out in the open and make sure I have a good stance. I practice foot work more than stance. I think Ill try focusing on my stance, and see where that leads me.

 

[42769vette]

mental focus. happens all the time in competition. You get the first few plates and either start to think about how well you are doing vs thinking about your fundamentals or you start thinking you hit the first few easily so you start to speed up.

If there's the possibility for anything at all doing with the plate/gun, it could be that the top plates have a different back ground making it harder to resolve the plate edge and/or sights.

at 10 yds, there is nothing you can blame on balistics or the gun.

-rvb

It happens even if I start at the top and work down, so I dont think its mental focus. I know with a rifle the angle can effect the POI, but I didnt know if that was possible for pistols as well. Thanks for clearing that up sir.

 

[Bottlefed]

To much change or keys in your right pocket move it to the left pocket... It's all mental just practice and get comfortable with you own skill and you'll be amazed. Next week the bottoms will give you fits.

 

[rvb]

I know with a rifle the angle can effect the POI, but I didnt know if that was possible for pistols as well. Thanks for clearing that up sir.

at 10 yds it won't make a lick of difference no matter what gun. maybe if you can measure your poi difference with a micrometer....
with a rifle, at an extreme angle, like 30*, and several hundred yds, THEN you might get off enough to get out the tape measure (2-6").
quick google: http://www.millettsights.com/downloads/ShootingUphillAndDownhill.pdf

if there anything outside your mind and trigger finger influencing your hits, it's what you see.

-rvb

 

[Slawburger]

I have a suggestion. Stand a large piece of cardboard behind the dueling tree so that you have the same "background" for all targets and try it again. Perhaps you are seeing the ground on the lower targets but looking into air on the top targets. It might not reveal anything but it is a cheap and easy thing to try. It might even reveal some minor astigmatism.

 

[42769vette]

at 10 yds it won't make a lick of difference no matter what gun. maybe if you can measure your poi difference with a micrometer....
with a rifle, at an extreme angle, like 30*, and several hundred yds, THEN you might get off enough to get out the tape measure (2-6").
quick google: http://www.millettsights.com/downloads/ShootingUphillAndDownhill.pdf

if there anything outside your mind and trigger finger influencing your hits, it's what you see.

-rvb

I fully understand how it works with a rifle, but as I stated earlier, I'm not a pistol guy, and didn't know if it started happening closer with a pistol. I knew it was a long shot, but I was just brain storming. The only thing that came to mind that was always changing between the targets was my shot angle.

 

[42769vette]

I have a suggestion. Stand a large piece of cardboard behind the dueling tree so that you have the same "background" for all targets and try it again. Perhaps you are seeing the ground on the lower targets but looking into air on the top targets. It might not reveal anything but it is a cheap and easy thing to try. It might even reveal some minor astigmatism.

Good Idea, I know I do not have a astigmatism, but mabye not having as strong a background would effect it. I have a dirt cliff on the farm, I think Ill move the tree to it for a shooting session and see what happens.

 

[top hat 45]

in stead of shooting up/ down or down/up, try shooting top or bottom plate after each switch of plate side i.e. left right left right on same plate. see how many hits in a row you can get that way.

 

[Manatee]

If you are the type of person who has a running commentary going on in their head all the time, you might exhibit the phenomena you describe. You must have a quiet mind to shoot well.

 

[rhino]

Without seeing you shoot, here is my best guess:

Based on the report that it's usually your last 1-2 shots that are the problem, I concur with rvb that it's a concentration issue. There are two things that might be happening (and actually both could be happening at the same time). They're both very common and issues with which I continue to struggle.

1. After you keep adequate focus on the front sight during your first few shots, your visual focus may be shifting away from the sights to the target on later shots either just before you press the trigger or during the trigger press. A lot of people have trouble realizing they're doing this because they have a distinct memory of seeing the front sight in the right place... but it wasn't at the right time. If you are able to call your shots, make sure you're seeing the front sight lift from the rear notch in the right place in front of the target on each and every shot. It's easy to get complacent when you are expecting to be finished.
2. The other common issue is looking over the top of the gun to look for your hit instead of maintaining visual focus on the front sight until you see it lift. I call this "admiring your work." When you do this, it causes the muzzle to dip (sometimes a significant amount), causing the shot to impact lower than intended. Again, the shooter may have a memory of seeing a good sight picture, but they allowed their eyes to shift to the target too soon.

In both cases,the solution is to learn to maintain your visual focus long enough for each shot, especially the last. The hardest shot to fire is when you know you're only going to shoot one and #2 above happens all too often. The best way to solve his issue in the long term is to learn to call your shots and then do so consistently every time you press the trigger.

I did a little pistol shooting yesterday. I'm a far cry from a pistol marksman, but I keep running into the same issue, and hoped someone could shed some light on the topic.

Running a dueling tree at 10ish yds with a Glock 19 I notice that I take out the bottom 4 plates in 4 or 5 shots, but the top 2 always give me fits. This happens if I start from the top, or start from the bottom, and if I'm moving quickly, or taking my time.

WHY

Is their some technique I might need to work on?
Is my hold point different as I come to a more "level" position?

Its possible its just dumb luck, but it seams to "consistent" to be dumb luck.

Enlighten me.

 

[cedartop]

Alan, where are you sighting on the target. Center, six o'clock? I can't help but think since it is always the top targets no matter the order you shoot them in, you are having some type of sight alingment/picture issue.

 

[42769vette]

Alan, where are you sighting on the target. Center, six o'clock? I can't help but think since it is always the top targets no matter the order you shoot them in, you are having some type of sight alingment/picture issue.

You are exactly correct. It doesn't matter the order I shoot the targets the top ones give me fits.

If I started shooting from top to bottom I would hit the top plate on shot 3, the next one down on shot 2, and clean the rest.

Or I will clean the bottom 4, and take 5 shots to get the remaining 2.

For sight picture I'm at 6 o'clock center. On most of my glocks I put the top of the front sight on the bottom of the 6 inch plate. To me that seams like I'm aiming a couple inches low, but that appears to work on the bottom 4.

 

[rvb]

maybe we are making assumptions here..... are the top plates smaller than the others?

-rvb

 

[rvb]

For sight picture I'm at 6 o'clock center. On most of my glocks I put the top of the front sight on the bottom of the 6 inch plate. To me that seams like I'm aiming a couple inches low, but that appears to work on the bottom 4.

what do your 10yd groups on paper tell you about your poi/poa? the fact you moved a piece of steel can't tell you if your aim point is correct.

-rvb

 

[42769vette]

what do your 10yd groups on paper tell you about your poi/poa? the fact you moved a piece of steel can't tell you if your aim point is correct.

-rvb

I really just getting more serious about pistol shooting, and I have not shot paper.

 

[bwframe]

My advice is to invite this guy over to "shoot rifles."

Without seeing you shoot, here is my best guess...

 

[rhino]

My advice is to invite this guy over to "shoot rifles."

Sounds like a good idea!