personal protection handgun ammo stopping power?

[LordTio3]

Answer to your question...
Yes. The .45 will stop someone better than a 9mm if everything else is equal.
If you stand the same distance from 2 twin brothers, with a .45 in your right hand and a 9mm in your left and shoot them in the torso at the exact same place at the same time, the one with the larger wound that got hit with a larger round will tend to go down more quickly.

This is not the case in a real gun fight. What everyone has been saying is "Carry the largest caliber you shoot well." The key to this is "Shoot well" because shot placement is key. A hit with a .22 beats a miss with a .50 BMG. You've got to be able to make the shot, and probably multiple times in under a few seconds to survive. This equation includes 2 things. "Damage Dealt" and "Time Taken to make the Shot". Larger calibers generally have more recoil, and tend to be more difficult to shoot in a self defense/training situation: thus it may take you longer to Make the Shot, but when you do, you'll deal more trauma to the assailant. The 9mm is quite easy to learn to shoot well. You'll have more rounds available, and will, generally speaking, be more likely to be able to make the shot. But you won't deal as much damage, and may have to connect more times to bring them down.

Everything is a trade off. All things being equal, and they never are, bigger bullets tend to work better...
...But ammunition has come a long way over the years.

For clarification, I carry a 9mm and always have.
~LT

 

[451_Detonics]

Everything is a trade off. All things being equal, and they never are, bigger bullets tend to work better...
...But ammunition has come a long way over the years.

~LT

If we were talking about strictly ball I would agree but given that velocity enhances expansion of a good hp design I would say the higher velocity of the 9mm levels the playing field with the 45 to a large degree. The faster a bullet expands the faster it's greater diameter can do more damage.

I feel bullet design is even more important than caliber.

 

[LordTio3]

If we were talking about strictly ball I would agree but given that velocity enhances expansion of a good hp design I would say the higher velocity of the 9mm levels the playing field with the 45 to a large degree. The faster a bullet expands the faster it's greater diameter can do more damage.

I feel bullet design is even more important than caliber.

I'll not argue on that point. That's really what I was trying to say what I said that "ammo has come a long way". I guess I should have elaborated a little more. Quite frankly, I wouldn't feel underprotected carrying a .380 with Gold Dot HP's these days.

-Agreed.
~LT

 

[Joe Williams]

If we were talking about strictly ball I would agree but given that velocity enhances expansion of a good hp design I would say the higher velocity of the 9mm levels the playing field with the 45 to a large degree. The faster a bullet expands the faster it's greater diameter can do more damage.

I feel bullet design is even more important than caliber.

Of course, the same advances that have made the 9mm a formidable round have at the same time also improved the .45 ACP. Gone are the days when expansion even with premium ammo is a "maybe" thing with the big, slow bullets. Modern .45 JHPs expand very well, through a variety of mediums and barriers.

I am in full agreement that bullet design is vital. It's turned the 9mm into a more than viable defensive round, and made the .45 even better than it already was.

 

[cosermann]

I know many slam Evan Marshell and Ed Sanow but their books are the definitive works on the subject.

. . . So many well documented shootings for the data, you just can't argue with facts.

Oh, my. So much to say on this. But it just takes the thread too far afield. Must . . . refrain . . .

. . . I am in full agreement that bullet design is vital. It's turned the 9mm into a more than viable defensive round, and made the .45 even better than it already was.

Wholeheartedly agree.. The best modern loads in 9mm give it the mechanical capability to do the job when placed adequately (as all handgun rounds must be). The thing with 9mm is, and I'm not bashing it (I like the 9), there are probably more poor loads around for 9mm than any of the duty calibers.

So, choose wisely.

 

[Jack Ryan]

If you can't hit what you need to hit, you've got the wrong gun, wrong ammo or it's in the wrong hands no matter what you read on the internet. That's a pretty simple fact.

There's no such thing as "stopping power". That's a fact its a bogus term used as propaganda when a writer has nothing useful to say.

As for gun fights, if a 9mm is better than a 45 acp then a 380 or 25 should be even better than the 9. I hope any one I'm ever in a gun fight against is subscribing to the smaller is better theory and I'm all for it. Any one I've never met in person, I highly recomend you go with the 25 acp.

 

[rcflyer]

9 Shot 22LR snubby. Shoot it all the time because ammo is cheap. Very proficient with it because I practice so much. Several 22's in the head has pretty good stopping power. By the time you shoot your big ass .45 and miss(which in a real gun fight you probably wlll) . I put 4-5 22's between your eyes.Good night Irene.

 

[Jack Ryan]

9 Shot 22LR snubby. Shoot it all the time because ammo is cheap. Very proficient with it because I practice so much. Several 22's in the head has pretty good stopping power. By the time you shoot your big ass .45 and miss(which in a real gun fight you probably wlll) . I put 4-5 22's between your eyes.Good night Irene.

I can see how you would be the best judge of what you are capable of handling but what makes you think you would also be the best judge of what I am capable of? I don't think we have ever met have we?

 

[bigmedicine]

I've spent the better part of my life either in school or practicing medicine. I have had the "pleasure" of seeing people shot with a variety of weapons. You can study various aspects of engineering, physics, and medicine and all will augment your positions nicely. I don't know any of the premier researchers in the 'stopping power' arena. All I do know for certain is that I do NOT want to be shot through the sternum with ANY premium hollowpoint from ANY platform. Regardless of what you see on TV or in the movies, it pretty much translates into goodnight gracie! All common sense has taught me is that I don't want to get shot

 

[sertboy354]

ITs all about shot placement if you put the shots in the right place then its no problem

 

[Amishman44]

Arguements...arguements...all are just arguements for what one believes.

1. No one...and I mean no one, is going to stand there and place 4-5 .22lr's 'between the eyes' in a real gunfight...I'd say that you're not awake yet...if it'd be me, I'd be moving around, not standing still making myself a fixed target.

2. Shot placement is key...followed closely by penetration (depth of 12"+ is necessary).

3. The last few guys that FWPD shot (and killed) were with 9mm Glocks.

4. Twenty years ago...9mm hardball was not that effective and the .45 vs 9mm arguement was simple....45 won! Nowadays, with the improvements in ammo of all types, 9mm is sufficient (barely) & effective enough to be considered a valid carry / PD round...plus most handguns will let you carry plenty of them.

5. I believe in the 5-rounds at 5 yards in a 5" group (in a real gunfight, I'd be lucky to hit the BG twice...acknowledged) but with a .357 magnum, guaranteeing sufficient penetration, should I be fortunate enough to achieve a center-mass hit. If my revolver doesn't get it, my .357SIG (G-32) will work...and it's really a 9mm bullet...it's just going really fast!

6. My wife carries a Ruger SP101 in .38+P...and my summer gun is a Ruger LCR in .38+P...with Federals, CorBon's, or Hornady's...I feel more than safe carrying either of those revolvers.

 

[Larryjr]

Well I have read through all the post now after having started this whole deal. I do appreciate all your thoughts on the subject.

After thinking these things through I have made what I believe to be the right decision for me. I love all calibers but for my carry weapon I can buy many more 9mm than .357, .38, .44, .45 or other larger, more expensive rounds. Therefore I can practice more with the funds I have. I believe that will translate into better shot placement which in the end (obviously) is the most important aspect of this whole subject.

 

[kingnereli]

Well I have read through all the post now after having started this whole deal. I do appreciate all your thoughts on the subject.

After thinking these things through I have made what I believe to be the right decision for me. I love all calibers but for my carry weapon I can buy many more 9mm than .357, .38, .44, .45 or other larger, more expensive rounds. Therefore I can practice more with the funds I have. I believe that will translate into better shot placement which in the end (obviously) is the most important aspect of this whole subject.

You bring up another consideration that is worth mentioning when discussing caliber. Is the fact that 9mm is so much more cost effective going to allow you to become more effective with it? Is it worth it to carry a smaller bullet? You've answered those questions for yourself. Everyone has to make that choice. I'll admit that even as a die hard .45 man I do a lot of my practicing with more inexpensive calibers.

9 Shot 22LR snubby. Shoot it all the time because ammo is cheap. Very proficient with it because I practice so much. Several 22's in the head has pretty good stopping power. By the time you shoot your big ass .45 and miss(which in a real gun fight you probably wlll) . I put 4-5 22's between your eyes.Good night Irene.

We'll just pretend that you forgot the purple text.

If we were talking about strictly ball I would agree but given that velocity enhances expansion of a good hp design I would say the higher velocity of the 9mm levels the playing field with the 45 to a large degree. The faster a bullet expands the faster it's greater diameter can do more damage.

Cross sectional density determines expanded diameter not velocity. There simply isn't enough bullet there to make a 9mm expand as much as a .45acp. Actually, expansion increases the width disparity between the two. Besides, projectiles are designed to expand within a given velocity range. Pushing a bullet faster then the velocity range it was designed for can make it shed its jacket or just plain come apart. Feel free to reference any of the plethora of gel tests readily available on the internet to confirm this.

I feel bullet design is even more important than caliber.

 

[mastery]

I'll take a .22 with one round, over a .45 with a thousand rounds...if you are only a good shot with the .22, and lousy with the .45, get whatever you shoot the best. Shot placement wins over shot volume.

 

[kingnereli]

I'll take a .22 with one round, over a .45 with a thousand rounds...if you are only a good shot with the .22, and lousy with the .45, get whatever you shoot the best. Shot placement wins over shot volume.

Or practice a little.

 

[Vanguard.45]

All of the service calibers do fine!

9mm, .40, .357 SIG/ Magnum, .45, 10mm all do the job with good placement.

And if one doesn't stop 'em, hit 'em again until they do stop.

Simple, really.

Vanguard.45