Personal Choice, Liberty and drugs...

[Prometheus]

Prompted by a comment in another thread about some Libertarians and marijuana legalization.

For those in favor of keeping marijuana illegal...

By what Right do claim to do so?

By what Right do YOU have the authority to tell a consenting adult what they may put into their body?

Something I think we all agree with is that this should be a State issue. The federal government and it's war on the people aka war on drugs costs us billions of dollars every year and does nothing to combat the real problems or issues.

Not that is matters for the purposes of this thread, but I personally don't indulge in it and never saw any appeal to it, then again I'm not into whips and chains either, but who am I to judge?
That behind us, I believe Marijuana should be treated like alcohol. Legal for adults to purchase and consume. As to impairment, same for driving drunk.

 

[rambone]

Freedom, baby. Its not like my tax dollars have stopped anybody from smoking pot.

 

[smoking357]

Prompted by a comment in another thread about some Libertarians and marijuana legalization.

For those in favor of keeping marijuana illegal...

By what Right do claim to do so?

By what Right do YOU have the authority to tell a consenting adult what they may put into their body?

Something I think we all agree with is that this should be a State issue. The federal government and it's war on the people aka war on drugs costs us billions of dollars every year and does nothing to combat the real problems or issues.

Not that is matters for the purposes of this thread, but I personally don't indulge in it and never saw any appeal to it, then again I'm not into whips and chains either, but who am I to judge?
That behind us, I believe Marijuana should be treated like alcohol. Legal for adults to purchase and consume. As to impairment, same for driving drunk.

 

[HDSilvrStreak]

As to impairment, same for driving drunk.

I think this is one of the main stumbling blocks to decriminalization.

With alcohol, it's very easy to test for BAC (blood alcohol content) using either a blood test or even breathalyzer. There is no such test for marijuana impairment. It stays in your system long after you're done being "high". When a person is in an accident or pulled over, there really is no way to test them for impairment. (Do you want this Twinkie?)

However, I will point out that I've never seen two guys that are stoned get into a fight. I think every fight I've ever seen has involved someone that has had too much to drink. Fair trade off?

 

[Prometheus]

I think this is one of the main stumbling blocks to decriminalization.

With alcohol, it's very easy to test for BAC (blood alcohol content) using either a blood test or even breathalyzer. There is no such test for marijuana impairment.

What did they do before breath and blood alcohol tests? Field tests. Today you can still be arrested for being impaired even if you pass the BAC tests but fail a field test.

However, I will point out that I've never seen two guys that are stoned get into a fight. I think every fight I've ever seen has involved someone that has had too much to drink. Fair trade off?

Good point.

 

[42769vette]

Prompted by a comment in another thread about some Libertarians and marijuana legalization.

For those in favor of keeping marijuana illegal...

By what Right do claim to do so?

By what Right do YOU have the authority to tell a consenting adult what they may put into their body?

Something I think we all agree with is that this should be a State issue. The federal government and it's war on the people aka war on drugs costs us billions of dollars every year and does nothing to combat the real problems or issues.

Not that is matters for the purposes of this thread, but I personally don't indulge in it and never saw any appeal to it, then again I'm not into whips and chains either, but who am I to judge?
That behind us, I believe Marijuana should be treated like alcohol. Legal for adults to purchase and consume. As to impairment, same for driving drunk.

we had this debate about a year ago and i think my post count tripled so im going to stear clear of this thread but long story short imo you hit the nail on the head. i dont smoke pot and would not start if they legalized it, but i dont like my tax dollars wasted fighting a losing battle

 

[theweakerbrother]

Someone said something to me that made a bit if ontological sense. To a point.

How can you make something illegal that God himself has made?

It's not something that has to be processed, concentrated or worked with to enhance... it just is.

Whether or not weed was illegal does not change my use, or lack thereof, of the drug.

That being said, people always quote the nonviolence of those who smoke up but don't mention the dead beat parents who do nothing but think of smoking up and neglect their kids.

Of course, that being said... I'm more interested in freedom than hypothetical safety of imaginary kids in a discussion.

I know a lot of cops who feel proud for a drug bust when they take drugs off the street. They believe the line about keeping drugs away from kids. That may be true and I understand what they mean when it is hard stuff. But marijuana... I dunno... I don't get why it is illegal.

As I've said in other threads, I've used prescription Marinol (a cannabinoid) legally several times. I was never impaired beyond the limit of driving responsibly even while taking more a normal dosage. It is a great tool to help nausea and give one the desire/craving to eat when they are normally too sick to do so.

Marinol is a synthesized cannabinoid manufactured by BigPharma that is processed into oil filled capsules that must be refrigerated in order for it to be stabilized so that I could consume it. It seems much more cost effective to just use the real thing, oil or not, to do the same thing.

 

[thej27]

I used to be very against marijuana use but over the years after seeing more and more on it my opinion has changed. I never have smoked pot and would never even if they legalized it. I really don't see a ton of people turning into pot smokers overnight if they legalized it. Just like alcohol people will choose on their own to use it or not. I do believe in severe punishment if one is impaired by it use while driving just like alcohol. I have also seen but don't know if its true or not the smoking pot is less of an impairment the alcohol but that could be a rambling of a marijuana activist. What angers me a lot is the over the top abuse of some law enforcement organizations just for a simple arrest of a pot smoker. SWAT teams breaking downs doors, no knock warrants are disasters waiting to happen and have happened.
It will take a miracle for pot to be legalized because a lot of law enforcement organizations would be against it. Not for the good and safety of the public but just for the huge amount of funding they get for enforcing the law. Marijuana is the easiest drug to go after. It has a large amount of users. One of the cheapest for people to purchase. And most of the users, growers and dealers are not as dangerous and protective as the other drugs. Law enforcement organizations would fight legalization very hard so they wouldn't lose their cash cow.

 

[jsgolfman]

How does my being impaired affect your rights? By what right do you detain/arrest/punish me for being impaired if I do not violate your rights?

 

[smoking357]

How does my being impaired affect your rights? By what right do you detain/arrest/punish me for being impaired if I do not violate your rights?

Further, where and when did I consent to a government that would make such items illegal? I have never given such consent, and if I inadvertently gave such consent, I emphatically and insultingly withdraw it.

 

[turnandshoot4]

So everyone is in agreement about pot. Fair enough.

What about heroin? Cocaine?

 

[SavageEagle]

So everyone is in agreement about pot. Fair enough.

What about heroin? Cocaine?

Yep. I'd smoke it again if it were legal. I miss it.

Coke? Heroin? I don't like it, and wouldn't use it. Legalize it? Well, if I support pot, I have to support those too. I don't like it, and find them to be more dangerous than any other drugs, but they're no worse than most prescription drugs on the market. I mean, hey, if you wanna look like this, your choice...

 

[Fletch]

So everyone is in agreement about pot. Fair enough.

Not everyone is; the folks who aren't just aren't posting.

What about heroin? Cocaine?

Stop making a list. All drugs should be legal and available over the counter. We don't need to debate each one of them individually, just end prohibition, stop the war on drugs, and recognize that each person has the right to ingest whatever substance they care to.

Focus instead on those who engage in dangerous behavior, regardless of whether they're under the influence or not. "I was high" is not an excuse. Neither is "I was sober".

 

[XMil]

Not everyone is; the folks who aren't just aren't posting.



Stop making a list. All drugs should be legal and available over the counter. We don't need to debate each one of them individually, just end prohibition, stop the war on drugs, and recognize that each person has the right to ingest whatever substance they care to.

Focus instead on those who engage in dangerous behavior, regardless of whether they're under the influence or not. "I was high" is not an excuse. Neither is "I was sober".

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Ogre]

remove prohibition on all of it, and get back to a society that demands personal responsibility!

Not everyone is; the folks who aren't just aren't posting.



Stop making a list. All drugs should be legal and available over the counter. We don't need to debate each one of them individually, just end prohibition, stop the war on drugs, and recognize that each person has the right to ingest whatever substance they care to.

Focus instead on those who engage in dangerous behavior, regardless of whether they're under the influence or not. "I was high" is not an excuse. Neither is "I was sober".

 

[turnandshoot4]

Not everyone is; the folks who aren't just aren't posting.



Stop making a list. All drugs should be legal and available over the counter. We don't need to debate each one of them individually, just end prohibition, stop the war on drugs, and recognize that each person has the right to ingest whatever substance they care to.

Focus instead on those who engage in dangerous behavior, regardless of whether they're under the influence or not. "I was high" is not an excuse. Neither is "I was sober".

This is where I was going with it.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Who wants to keep pot illegal? Follow the money.

1. Drug cartels (big $$$ growing and transporting).
2. Alcohol companies (lost $$$ to substitute product).
3. Drug dealers (big $$$ selling).
4. Mafia / gangs (lost $$$ transporting, selling, protecting).
5. Law enforcement (lost $$$ in forfitures).
6. Prosecutors (lost $$$ to budgets).
7. Trial lawyers (lost $$$ representing those engaged in illicit drugs).
8. Judges (lost $$$ in budgets).
9. States (lost $$$ in "drug war" funding, DOC budgets).
10. Federal government (lost $$$ in tax collections, loss of control over your life).

And that's just off the top of my head.

 

[turnandshoot4]

Aww come on. Nobody here wants to save the children?

 

[mrjarrell]

Aww come on. Nobody here wants to save the children?

No thanks. I'll take care of my own kids and let them know the cost/benefit of drug use. Let them take their own decisions when they're adults.

 

[hoosiertriangle]

I would completely agree with the consensus to end the war on drugs IF we enforced personal accountability FIRST. There are far to many who would escape the consequences of their actions by suckling on the mother's (gov't) teat while still choosing to do damage to their own bodies. We could go along way by just decriminalizing most drug related offense and cutting those who do use non-medical drugs out of the welfare system. I"m not ready to unlock all the doors until we force people to live with the consequences of their decisions all by themselves.