out-of-stater selling long gun at indy 1500

[acidbath]

Hello from the mitten-state to your north. I'm coming to the Indy 1500 show this weekend. Never been to this show, but I hear it's impressive. I have a FAL taking up too much space in the safe, and was thinking about walking it around the show. It has the required # of US parts. I'm fairly certain I can sell it to anyone at the show legally, but want to make sure IN doesn't have any crazy laws I should be aware of. Anything I need to be aware of?

 

[ATF Consumer]

Nope, we have that evil gun show loop hole...the one the anti's complain about.

INDY 1500 GUN & KNIFE SHOW EXHIBITOR RULES & REGULATIONS
Wel come to the Indy 1500 Gun Show. We appreciate your patronage. We have made, and will
continue to make, every effort to insure a safe and profitable show. However, it is necessary to
outline the following general show rules for exhibitors:
1. Exhibitors' parking is immediately north of the Exposition building. You may enter through
the doors on the west side. Boxed vans and trailers must be parked in designated areas prior
to the opening of the show.
2. Exhibitors will be allowed in the building at 7:00 a.m. on Saturday, and at 8:00 a.m. on
Sunday. Please make every effort to remain until the close of the show at 4:00 p.m. on
Sunday. The east ticket lobby doors may NOT be used for unloading or loading by order of
the State Fair Director. No exceptions.
3. The INDIANA STATE SALES TAX DIVISION may have representatives attending this
show in an official capacity. Be advised that the State Sales Tax is 7% of sales. Plan
accordingly.
4. Adhesive stickers issued at check-in are to be placed on all guns AFTER they are sold. Please
limit their use to guns only. This will enable us to verify that the gun has been purchased, and
not stolen from your tables.
5. The Indiana State Fire Marshal requires that all table covers be fire-retardant.
6. No refunds given on tables canceled. Credit will be given for the next show only. No credit
for cancellations received during show week.
7. No subletting of tables without prior approval of W.C.G.S., Inc.
8. The State Fair Director's office will require any exhibit deemed to be in poor taste to be
modified or removed. No explosives, bombs, incendiary devices, or related items will be
allowed.
9. There will be no ammunition (live, spent, blank, decorator, or anything that could be
construed as ammunition) placed in any clip, magazine, cylinder, chamber, or barrel.
10. All displayed guns, short and long, must be tied. This includes guns inside glass cases.
11. Personal guns must be unloaded outside of the building and tied prior to entering.
12. Exhibitors will NOT be allowed to wear guns.
13. During public show hours, no exhibitor is allowed to handle any customer's firearm if it has
not been stickered and/or tied. During show hours, it is the responsibility of every exhibitor to
immediately report to our security staff any firearm not stickered and/or tied.
Any violation of these rules will result in immediate and permanent expulsion from this show and
all future shows under our control. No refunds will be given and no excuses will be accepted.
Wor ld Class Gun Shows' staff and Indianapolis police officers will be checking guns during the
entire show.
If for any reason you feel you are unable to follow these rules, don't unload your vehicle.
Exhibitors must abide by all local, State, and Federal laws and show rules. Safety is our prime​

concern.

 

[dburkhead]

Unless I am badly mistaken, interstate transfers of guns must go through an FFL. Per Federal law, long guns can go through an FFL in either buyer or seller's state. Handguns must go through the seller's state.

States can place additional restrictions on that (such as some state's "neighboring states" type restrictions).

Thus, IIUC, you would only be able to sell that rifle to an FFL, or to an individual with an FFL to handle the paperwork and run a NICS check.

 

[NateIU10]

Unless I am badly mistaken, interstate transfers of guns must go through an FFL. Per Federal law, long guns can go through an FFL in either buyer or seller's state. Handguns must go through the seller's state.

States can place additional restrictions on that (such as some state's "neighboring states" type restrictions).

Thus, IIUC, you would only be able to sell that rifle to an FFL, or to an individual with an FFL to handle the paperwork and run a NICS check.

yup. You cannot sell to a private individual, it's a federal felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison and $250,000

Again, only sell to an FFL!

 

[melensdad]

yup. You cannot sell to a private individual, it's a federal felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison and $250,000

Again, only sell to an FFL!

WRONG ANSWER.

He can sell the rifle 2 different ways at the show.

• One way, as you wrote, is to sell it TO an FFL.
• The other legal way is to sell it THROUGH an FFL who is willing to act as the transferring dealer for the transaction to an Indiana resident at the show who wants to buy the rifle.

But as noted, a Michigan resident selling a gun to a resident of ANY other state would constitute an inter-state sale and the transfer of such a gun (doesn't matter if it is a shotgun, rifle or handgun) must be processed by a licensed FFL dealer in the buyer's state.

 

[indykid]

It wasn't too long ago that states with common boarders allowed sellings of long guns between individuals, but a year or so ago ATF decided once again to change their mind and ban all sales across state lines. Once again a tax collection agency makes a law in violation of the Constitution, and that law violates one of the rights given to us by the Bill of Rights! Yup, gotta go thru an FFL holder.

 

[Clay]

what if he sells the rifle to a Michigan resident?

 

[dburkhead]

WRONG ANSWER.

He can sell the rifle 2 different ways at the show.

• One way, as you wrote, is to sell it TO an FFL.
• The other legal way is to sell it THROUGH an FFL who is willing to act as the transferring dealer for the transaction to an Indiana resident at the show who wants to buy the rifle.

But as noted, a Michigan resident selling a gun to a resident of ANY other state would constitute an inter-state sale and the transfer of such a gun (doesn't matter if it is a shotgun, rifle or handgun) must be processed by a licensed FFL dealer in the buyer's state.

The FFL does not have to be in the buyer's state so long as the transfer between the buyer and the FFL is "in person".

From the ATF web site:

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(emphasis added)

That is, providing of course, that the laws of the two states permit the transaction.

 

[dburkhead]

what if he sells the rifle to a Michigan resident?

You used a winkey but that's actually a good question. If two people who were from same state happened to meet at the Indy1500, could they legally transfer a firearm between them at the show without using an FFL?

Alternately, were I to meet another Indiana resident elsewhere, could I transfer a firearm with that person without going through an FFL?

 

[acidbath]

Ack! Did not think this would be so complicated.

But I appreciate all the feedback. I'll insist on transfer through an FFL, seems the safest way to go.

Thanks guys!

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Acidbath... That's the best course of action.

Be prepared, however, for a dealer to charge you for the transfer. Call it $25 as an average. Be sure to figure that into your asking price.

-J-

 

[dross]

Does this apply to a gift as well? For instance, I buy a firearm here, then travel to another state with it, and give it to a friend or family member, would I be breaking the law? If so, there must be a bunch of people out there in violation.

 

[Scutter01]

Does this apply to a gift as well? For instance, I buy a firearm here, then travel to another state with it, and give it to a friend or family member, would I be breaking the law? If so, there must be a bunch of people out there in violation.

I would think a transfer is a transfer regardless of the money that changes hands.

 

[dross]

I would think a transfer is a transfer regardless of the money that changes hands.

I wonder if you can "loan" a gun to a family member across state lines. This is completely new information to me, and somewhat disturbing.

 

[acidbath]

Thanks for the feedback fellas. Sold the FAL to an FFL at the show today. Took the money and bought a pistol AR upper receiver, and also some once-fired .45 brass. Show was amazingly huge (nothing that big in MI) and at times amazingly crowded. At times you could not move down the aisles. Did not see any good deals on ammo, saw a few good deals on a few firearms. Hope to be able to visit again when half the country isn't scared of a ban or economic collapse.

Cheers!