Open Carrying at Place of Worship.

[KiteEatingTree]

I have never taken a weapon to temple, but was curious if anyone else open carries at their mosque/temple/cathedral/etc. (and of course if anyone conceals)

 

[Errkola]

No "open" carry, but concealed, yes.

 

[KiteEatingTree]

You beat me to my edit. Was definitely curious about concealed as well. Grazie.

 

[Turn Key]

"The God Squad"

No "open" carry, but concealed, yes.

Correct advise above.

Have you seen the Rabbi's that go around to various temples and do self defense training for others?

If I remember correctly, they call themselves the "God Squad"...
It might be worth a Google for their story. I saw them on one of the morning news shows. They were diving over chairs and couches and restraining people as they draw their 'Red Training Weapons'. One of the four guys in their group was an X-NYPD Officer.

God Bless

TK

 

[TopDog]

I don't even cut my grass without my handgun on me. But a place of worship is the only place I don't carry. I don't feel its right. I will however leave my handgun in my vehicle for transport back and fourth but not into the church itself.

And something to remember. Many places of worship also have schools on the same grounds. If you carry to such a place you might be breaking the law about no weapons on school grounds. Interesting question there.

 

[Errkola]

Top Dog good point, there could be a superseding law that makes carrying "illegal" but I hope that is not the case as churches (and schools) are attractive targets for those that want to hurt as many people as they can before checking out. It says alot about the decline of society that churches should be the occasional target of violence.

 

[GuyRelford]

Be careful of "schools" on church property!

Hey, folks - just a word of caution:

As you know, Indiana law prohibits firearms on school property:

"IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony."

In a 2002 Indiana Supreme Court case, "school property" was defined to include a church that operated a "quasi-kindergarten" on its premises. See French v. State, 778 NE2d 816 (Ind.2002).

French wasn't a firearm case, it was a drug case (where the defendant received an enhanced sentence for dealing drugs within 1000 feet of "school property"). But there's every reason to believe that the courts would define the term "school property" the same way under either statute, so as to include any church that operates any form of "school" on its property. In fact, since this is an Indiana Supreme Court case, a lower court could very well be obligated to apply this same definition of "school property" in a gun case.

 

[GuyRelford]

I don't even cut my grass without my handgun on me. But a place of worship is the only place I don't carry. I don't feel its right. I will however leave my handgun in my vehicle for transport back and fourth but not into the church itself.

And something to remember. Many places of worship also have schools on the same grounds. If you carry to such a place you might be breaking the law about no weapons on school grounds. Interesting question there.

Nice catch!! I was just raising the same point!

 

[Bill of Rights]

I don't even cut my grass without my handgun on me. But a place of worship is the only place I don't carry. I don't feel its right. I will however leave my handgun in my vehicle for transport back and fourth but not into the church itself.

And something to remember. Many places of worship also have schools on the same grounds. If you carry to such a place you might be breaking the law about no weapons on school grounds. Interesting question there.

Do what you wish and what feels right (within the law) of course. Do consider, though, that there have been shootings in houses of worship as well as anywhere else. If the BG thinks the place is likely to not have anyone inside who is armed, I think the likelihood of him choosing that place over another is higher.

You are correct about the school issue, though. If it is a school, it is always a school, even at midnight in July, when no one has been in school for weeks.

I still think that law needs changed. It would be so easy to do, too; just add "or a person licensed under this chapter to carry a handgun" to the list of excepted persons. (The panty-wetters like Tom Wyss, Tim Lanane, and Bob Deig in the State Senate and Pat Bauer in the State House will need to have their Mommies come change them, but they need to understand that the rights of the people are not subject to their whims, fears, or paranoid delusions.) If necessary to get it passed, the above could be amended to "or a person licensed under this chapter to carry a handgun, unless such person has been enrolled in that school as a student during that school year." to eliminate the horrifying (to them) situation where an 18 year old High School senior could have his LTCH and carry to class. That student underwent the same screening as anyone and everyone else in the state who holds a LTCH, and should be treated no differently under the law.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Turn Key]

Armed Rabbis

New York Rabbis go on armed self-defense courses

Gun-toting rabbis in New York are going on synagogue defense courses to learn how to deal with a terrorist attack.



By Tom Leonard in New York
Published: 9:03PM BST 04 Sep 2009


The self-defense classes are run by the International Security Coalition of Clergy, a group set up by Gary Moscowitz, a Queens rabbi and former police officer.
Practicing with toy pistols, fellow rabbis and other worshippers are taught basic techniques such as bringing down an assailant by the neck or using a table as cover from gunfire.
More advanced combat moves include performing a running somersault while drawing a gun.
Mr Moscowitz, who also passes on his knowledge as a karate black belt, admitted few people took him seriously until police exposed an alleged plot by Muslim converts to blow two synagogues in the Bronx.
He said he had since been inundated with calls and had set up a 100-hour synagogue self defence course as a result.
Mr Moscowitz, 52, said police officers were unable to protect temples effectively as they were unable to recognize congregation members.
"A terrorist could put a yarmulke on, say, 'Happy holidays', and blow the place up," he told the New York Post.
"Jews are not like Christians. If I turn my cheek, I'm coming around to make a kick." Stuart Rosenberg, who provides martial arts training for the group, said: "Our idea is you can't be spiritual if you're dead. You have to be able to fight back to live another day." Mr Moscowitz stressed that the important Jewish festivals of Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur are approaching, adding that the FBI regularly issued synagogues with terror alerts.
The rabbi has called for a New York state law that would allow at least five people at a house of worship to carry a gun if they have been trained.
A New York police spokesman said Mr Moscowitz was fired from the department in the 1990s.
Asked to comment on his new project, the spokesman told the Post: "Blessed are the tight of lip for they shall resist speaking ill of the ill-informed."

New York Rabbis go on armed self-defence courses - Telegraph

TK

 

[dburkhead]

Hey, folks - just a word of caution:

As you know, Indiana law prohibits firearms on school property:

"IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony."

In a 2002 Indiana Supreme Court case, "school property" was defined to include a church that operated a "quasi-kindergarten" on its premises. See French v. State, 778 NE2d 816 (Ind.2002).

French wasn't a firearm case, it was a drug case (where the defendant received an enhanced sentence for dealing drugs within 1000 feet of "school property"). But there's every reason to believe that the courts would define the term "school property" the same way under either statute, so as to include any church that operates any form of "school" on its property. In fact, since this is an Indiana Supreme Court case, a lower court could very well be obligated to apply this same definition of "school property" in a gun case.

When last I looked, "school" for purposes of firearms laws was actually pretty specifically defined. Fortunately, Sunday schools don't count. Unfortunately, licensed day cares (and "Day Care Ministries, being regulated by the same section of the IC) do and many churches do have day cares.

 

[GuyRelford]

When last I looked, "school" for purposes of firearms laws was actually pretty specifically defined. Fortunately, Sunday schools don't count. Unfortunately, licensed day cares (and "Day Care Ministries, being regulated by the same section of the IC) do and many churches do have day cares.

Check out pages 82 - 84 of Bryan Ciyou's book, "Indiana Handgun Law, 2d Edition" to see how broadly "school property" has been defined under various provisions of the Indiana Code.

 

[NHT3]

No "open" carry, but concealed, yes.

Ditto

 

[LLDJR]

On any given Sunday, we have @ 6-12 guys with concealed weapons, some of them are LEO's and some are not.

 

[haldir]

Same here, carry concealed. I don't think I would want to be responsible for all the filled Depends if I open carried.

 

[JetGirl]

I know a pastor who competes at Camp Perry and other competitions, owns a smokin' Rock River AR15 and an awesome M1 Garand,... and packs (albeit concealed). Even in the pulpit.
I think carrying in a house of worship is just fine.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I would if I could... But I can't, so I won't.

-J-

 

[cce1302]

It is legal to carry on the property of a church that has a school attached if you have permission from the church.
The head usher is usually the person to approach about this.
Several have made posts on other threads--now fallen into the deep recesses of INGO--about having permission from their church that has a school on its property.
I have seen discussions of whether it is or is not appropriate to carry a handgun in church, and I don't want to convince you that you should if you don't want to, but I want God to use me however he wants to use me, and if I have the ability to defend the people in my church from an attacker with my gun, it would be irresponsible to leave my gun at home.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

If you feel that your god makes it your responsibility to defend yourself the rest of the time, then why would you think that he's going to relieve you of that responsibility on the way to, during, & on your way home from worship?

 

[JetGirl]

If you feel that your god makes it your responsibility to defend yourself the rest of the time, then why would you think that he's going to relieve you of that responsibility on the way to, during, & on your way home from worship?

Exactly. If you believe your 2nd Amendment Right is really "God given", then why would it be rescinded at the door?