OC stop at Walmart in Schererville

[2A_Tom]

Too bad that opinion is not backed up by the Constitution, the Law or case law.

 

[Drail]

Having 3 or 4 cops show up is a clear indicator of having more cops than crime.......:" CCing is a hassle?" Oh please........

 

[jmpupillo]

^ Well I can tell you from personal experience - there's not a whole lot going on in Schererville IN

 

[slowG]

CCing is not Invisible.
This can still happen to you.

Yes it is invisible. I would have to be felt up for it to be noticed. Never once had this issue or even a single dirty look. Not even family or friends familiar with guns have ever noticed. This is the reason people CC.

 

[actaeon277]

Yes it is invisible. I would have to be felt up for it to be noticed. Never once had this issue or even a single dirty look. Not even family or friends familiar with guns have ever noticed. This is the reason people CC.

Congrats. But I haven't had an issue either.

 

[jblomenberg16]

Interesting video. In my opinion, while the individuals in the video did nothing wrong, the continued discussion about "my rights" didn't help diffuse things at all.

On another note, I remember taking a class several years ago with Vert. We talked our wives into taking a pistol class with us from an Ingo trainer. Very good class, and we broke for lunch and went to a local Wendy's restaurant.

Let me paint the picture for you.

Vert OC'ing a 1911 (of course) and Mrs. Vert OC'ing what I think was a Ruger Semi auto at that time (pre 1911 days for her).

JB16 OC'ing a Glock 19 (of course) and Mrs. JB16 OC'ing a commander 1911 in 9mm.


We ordered our food, cycled through taking turns using the rest room (there was a good reason we didn't use the rest room at the range, right Vert????? ). Nobody said a thing, and we had a nice lunch, then walked out and got back to the range. I'm sure there were a few looks, but no known calls for MWAG or WWAG. I honestly think that if it was just Vert and I, there would have been calls for MWAG, but having the wives there OC'ing did put things at ease.

I think our society unfortunately looks at a man OC'ing as a threat, but a woman OC'ing as a responsible gun owner. Not playing the equality card there...just saying that there are different impressions that we have to be aware of.

 

[VERT]

Interesting video. In my opinion, while the individuals in the video did nothing wrong, the continued discussion about "my rights" didn't help diffuse things at all.

On another note, I remember taking a class several years ago with Vert. We talked our wives into taking a pistol class with us from an Ingo trainer. Very good class, and we broke for lunch and went to a local Wendy's restaurant.

Let me paint the picture for you.

Vert OC'ing a 1911 (of course) and Mrs. Vert OC'ing what I think was a Ruger Semi auto at that time (pre 1911 days for her).

JB16 OC'ing a Glock 19 (of course) and Mrs. JB16 OC'ing a commander 1911 in 9mm.


We ordered our food, cycled through taking turns using the rest room (there was a good reason we didn't use the rest room at the range, right Vert????? ). Nobody said a thing, and we had a nice lunch, then walked out and got back to the range. I'm sure there were a few looks, but no known calls for MWAG or WWAG. I honestly think that if it was just Vert and I, there would have been calls for MWAG, but having the wives there OC'ing did put things at ease.

I think our society unfortunately looks at a man OC'ing as a threat, but a woman OC'ing as a responsible gun owner. Not playing the equality card there...just saying that there are different impressions that we have to be aware of.

That was so long ago that I was still rocking the Glock 23 and Mrs. was carrying the Walther PK380. Oh how we have matured since then.

The whole bathroom situation led to Mrs. Vert wanting us to find a more updated facility for hosting classes for novice shooters. In some ways that bad potty experience led to the VERT everyone knows today.

 

[GNRPowdeR]

The whole bathroom situation led to Mrs. Vert wanting us to find a more updated facility for hosting classes for novice shooters. In some ways that bad potty experience led to the VERT everyone knows today.

I wondered what happened... Now I know.

 

[Bill of Rights]

They're not doing their job. I Ask "Am I being detained?" Since they have no PC/RAS they may only make a consensual stop.

I love hearing all of you CCers telling everyone what will happen if they OC. It is kind of like listening to antis talk about bullet buttons and such.

They are doing their job. The carry of a handgun in Indiana is a criminal act at the present time. It is an affirmative defense to have been issued a license to do so under the law. The fact that they see you have a gun is the PC. Once you show the license, yes, that PC evaporates. However, the fact that the license is so easily duplicated (the older paper one, anyway) makes them calling it in a wise (and legally justifiable) action. Find one, make a couple of cosmetic changes to it, such as the name, address, etc., and it looks like you're legal, until they check and the number on it returns to someone else.

Of note, if you don't like the fact that the carry of a handgun in Indiana, absent a license, is a criminal act, contact your state senator and your state representative and make sure they know that. Do it today... the legislature meets in less than a month.

As for checking ID, I get that there is no requirement to show the DL, and I don't dispute that. I can also see the point that the burden of proof is on the person carrying to prove they have been issued a license. You show your ID to cash a check or any number of other reasons. I don't see showing it in this situation to be problematic.

What *IS* problematic is the officer saying that they have a right to check your ID. They do not. They have the authority to do so. They have the power to compel you to do so, either by ID or by fingerprinting. Far, far too many people either don't understand or don't care about the difference between rights and powers.

Lastly, the citizen was completely correct that the fears of others do not trump his right to carry.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[2A_Tom]

Bill I do understand that carrying a hand gun in Indiana is a Misdemeanor, but I assert that in my opinion (like noses, most smell) the default should be that if a person is Open Carrying, acting normally (not thuggish/threatening) and dressed neatly, that they are a proper/permitted person. I have read here that many 911 dispatchers are beginning to ask about the actions and demeanor of the person of interest in MWAG calls and informing callers that OC is legal for permitted persons.

Yes I do object to carrying being against the law in Indiana, and I have contacted my representatives, but where I live , my reps have no interest in my opinions or thr state or federal Constitutions.

 

[AndersonIN]

They are doing their job. The carry of a handgun in Indiana is a criminal act at the present time. It is an affirmative defense to have been issued a license to do so under the law. The fact that they see you have a gun is the PC. Once you show the license, yes, that PC evaporates. However, the fact that the license is so easily duplicated (the older paper one, anyway) makes them calling it in a wise (and legally justifiable) action. Find one, make a couple of cosmetic changes to it, such as the name, address, etc., and it looks like you're legal, until they check and the number on it returns to someone else.

Of note, if you don't like the fact that the carry of a handgun in Indiana, absent a license, is a criminal act, contact your state senator and your state representative and make sure they know that. Do it today... the legislature meets in less than a month.

As for checking ID, I get that there is no requirement to show the DL, and I don't dispute that. I can also see the point that the burden of proof is on the person carrying to prove they have been issued a license. You show your ID to cash a check or any number of other reasons. I don't see showing it in this situation to be problematic.

What *IS* problematic is the officer saying that they have a right to check your ID. They do not. They have the authority to do so. They have the power to compel you to do so, either by ID or by fingerprinting. Far, far too many people either don't understand or don't care about the difference between rights and powers.

Lastly, the citizen was completely correct that the fears of others do not trump his right to carry.

Blessings,
Bill

Bill I was under the thought that your only legal requirement for identification (other than the pink card if carrying and some say you can show that later but will probably pick up your gun later too) is to provide them with your correct name and address verbally. I know the DL makes it easier and if not a DL an Indiana voter ID type card would do. But neither is required correct? Not arguing just looking for legal clarification please.

 

[ajeandy]

The LTC also helps officers with traffic stops. If they run the plate, they can tell if the person has a 10-32 permit which just gives them a heads up that the person in the car may or may not have a weapon. Police offers get a lot of crap and have a very dangerous job and I can see both sides where yes we have rights, but also they have a dangerous job to do.

That being said, this is somewhat unrelated, but I wish there were more training facilities. I wish that there was LEO sponsored training for citizens when it comes to personal protection.

 

[ckyoursix]

It would not suprise me if the off-duty LEO was an Ill. resident. In that part of the state there are quite a few (alot) of Ill. residents shopping on that stretch of road to avoid Ill. tax.

 

[ajeandy]

It would not suprise me if the off-duty LEO was an Ill. resident. In that part of the state there are quite a few (alot) of Ill. residents shopping on that stretch of road to avoid Ill. tax.

Charge him for idiocy and tax evasion!

 

[jedi]

Does it require a drivers license now to have a LARRY? Sorry............I'm not driving right now, you don't need to see my drivers license!

No you do not need a driver's license to have a LARRY.
The law, as it stands now, says you must ID yourself (verbal is OK) HOWVER every LEO will want to see sometype of PHYSICAL ID (ie. driver's license, state ID, passport, etc.)
The front-line LEOs are ingrained in wanting to see your driver's license once they see your pink card. If you do not want to show it (DL) after you show them the pink card you are going to have to ask them to contact their supervisor. At the supervisor level they tend to know they yes a verbal ID is enough for the pink card if it came back valid.

I don't have the qualifications to write on the subject, but it seems like this would be a good subject to write about for law enforcement magazines. We need to constantly need to get the message out that MWAG calls do not necessarily justify a police response. The thing I keep hearing over and over in these stories is police saying they are required to respond to such calls. That is all perception and not reality.

I have never heard of an instance where someone calls 911 to report MWAG, only to be calmed down over the phone by the dispatcher and explained that there is no actual crime being committed.

One of these days, maybe we will get there, but it will take a lot of education of police officers and dispatchers, as well as departmental policy changes.

Its been discussed before here on INGO.
The LEO MUST repsond to a MWAG if dispatch sends them out. It's at the dispatch level that education is needed.
If the dispatcher asks more questions (ie. is the person committing a crime? is the person being agressive, etc..) to the caller and determines that the MWG is eating a hot dog at wal-mart with his sidearm in his holster then the dispatcher can tell the caller there is nothing illegal going on. But if the dispacther tells police MWAG the LEO has NO CHOICE but to repsond since dispatch is sending them.

Interesting video. In my opinion, while the individuals in the video did nothing wrong, the continued discussion about "my rights" didn't help diffuse things at all.

On another note, I remember taking a class several years ago with Vert. We talked our wives into taking a pistol class with us from an Ingo trainer. Very good class, and we broke for lunch and went to a local Wendy's restaurant.

Let me paint the picture for you.

Vert OC'ing a 1911 (of course) and Mrs. Vert OC'ing what I think was a Ruger Semi auto at that time (pre 1911 days for her).

JB16 OC'ing a Glock 19 (of course) and Mrs. JB16 OC'ing a commander 1911 in 9mm.


We ordered our food, cycled through taking turns using the rest room (there was a good reason we didn't use the rest room at the range, right Vert????? ). Nobody said a thing, and we had a nice lunch, then walked out and got back to the range. I'm sure there were a few looks, but no known calls for MWAG or WWAG. I honestly think that if it was just Vert and I, there would have been calls for MWAG, but having the wives there OC'ing did put things at ease.

I think our society unfortunately looks at a man OC'ing as a threat, but a woman OC'ing as a responsible gun owner. Not playing the equality card there...just saying that there are different impressions that we have to be aware of.

^ about this...
Correct no MWAG called because of perception.
In the video above the guy looks like a neo-nazi skinhead. Shaved head, big, black shirt with gun stuff on it.
He looks like trouble even though he is not. Just like coach always said "dress for success".

Another thing to note this occurred in NWI on US-30. For those not familiar with the area. The wal-mart happens to sit on the "divide" between North Lake County and South Lake County. South lake county is seen as the "rural quiet life" with a perception of no gang, drug, crime problems while the north has all of that. Schereville PD does its very best to try an maintain the appearance that they are holding back all the riff-raff from going any further south. It also does not help that to the west (some 10 mins away) is the IL border and all the riff raff from IL also comes to this wal-mart as well.

Yes I do object to carrying being against the law in Indiana, and I have contacted my representatives, but where I live , my reps have no interest in my opinions or thr state or federal Constitutions.

Accept the fact that NWI is a D stronghold and that will never change until the steelmills leave. In our life time we will have no Pro-2A representation in this area.

Bill I was under the thought that your only legal requirement for identification (other than the pink card if carrying and some say you can show that later but will probably pick up your gun later too) is to provide them with your correct name and address verbally. I know the DL makes it easier and if not a DL an Indiana voter ID type card would do. But neither is required correct? Not arguing just looking for legal clarification please.

Correct. A verbal ID (for your pink card) is enough.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Bill I was under the thought that your only legal requirement for identification (other than the pink card if carrying and some say you can show that later but will probably pick up your gun later too) is to provide them with your correct name and address verbally. I know the DL makes it easier and if not a DL an Indiana voter ID type card would do. But neither is required correct? Not arguing just looking for legal clarification please.

Not sure about the voter ID, as it also is a card without a photo, but other than that, exactly correct. You need to identify under certain circumstances, and the misdemeanor CWOL is not one of them, however, doing so just makes your life a little easier and makes less paperwork for the officer at the same time. Many don't care about the latter, and some will say that making one's own life easier at the cost of liberty is fraught with peril, as it accustoms the officer to compliance and conditions the public to consider it "normal" to be challenged like a criminal when one has committed no wrongdoing.

To turn a phrase, that's not a hill I want to die on. I'll just show my license if it's requested by the LEO (not "just because") and be on my merry way. That, BTW, applies to both licenses, LTCH and DL. LEOs, correct me if I'm in error here, but if they're going to charge you with a misdemeanor, they are *going* to identify you. It's no skin off their back ends if they take an extra hour or three to do it, because that's just one or two fewer reports they have to write.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Bill of Rights]

Not sure about the "must respond" thing, Jedi. Castle Rock v. Gonzales decided that they have no duty to protect an individual, but rather society as an entity unto itself. Thus, if an officer failed to respond, or a department failed to dispatch one to "check out" the MWAG, it would not be actionable legally. Probably dept. policy (and personal pride and ethics) on the line for the officer who didn't respond when told to do so by dispatch, though.

As above, officers, if I'm in error, I would be grateful for the education if you would let me know of the error, so I can both learn from it and correct it myself.

Blessings,
Bill

No you do not need a driver's license to have a LARRY.
The law, as it stands now, says you must ID yourself (verbal is OK) HOWVER every LEO will want to see sometype of PHYSICAL ID (ie. driver's license, state ID, passport, etc.)
The front-line LEOs are ingrained in wanting to see your driver's license once they see your pink card. If you do not want to show it (DL) after you show them the pink card you are going to have to ask them to contact their supervisor. At the supervisor level they tend to know they yes a verbal ID is enough for the pink card if it came back valid.



Its been discussed before here on INGO.
The LEO MUST repsond to a MWAG if dispatch sends them out. It's at the dispatch level that education is needed.
If the dispatcher asks more questions (ie. is the person committing a crime? is the person being agressive, etc..) to the caller and determines that the MWG is eating a hot dog at wal-mart with his sidearm in his holster then the dispatcher can tell the caller there is nothing illegal going on. But if the dispacther tells police MWAG the LEO has NO CHOICE but to repsond since dispatch is sending them.





^ about this...
Correct no MWAG called because of perception.
In the video above the guy looks like a neo-nazi skinhead. Shaved head, big, black shirt with gun stuff on it.
He looks like trouble even though he is not. Just like coach always said "dress for success".

Another thing to note this occurred in NWI on US-30. For those not familiar with the area. The wal-mart happens to sit on the "divide" between North Lake County and South Lake County. South lake county is seen as the "rural quiet life" with a perception of no gang, drug, crime problems while the north has all of that. Schereville PD does its very best to try an maintain the appearance that they are holding back all the riff-raff from going any further south. It also does not help that to the west (some 10 mins away) is the IL border and all the riff raff from IL also comes to this wal-mart as well.




Accept the fact that NWI is a D stronghold and that will never change until the steelmills leave. In our life time we will have no Pro-2A representation in this area.



Correct. A verbal ID (for your pink card) is enough.

 

[KG1]

Accept the fact that NWI is a D stronghold and that will never change until the steelmills leave. In our life time we will have no Pro-2A representation in this area.

QFT. Visclosky will more or less tell you to pound sand on any Pro-2A issue. POS lifer.

 

[2A_Tom]

In the video above the guy looks like a neo-nazi skinhead. Shaved head, big, black shirt with gun stuff on it.
He looks like trouble even though he is not. Just like coach always said "dress for success".

This must be a matter of perception, I see nothing threatening about his appearance or demeanor.

 

[jedi]

This must be a matter of perception, I see nothing threatening about his appearance or demeanor.

Neithe do i after having spent many years on ingo and see some of you guys. lol

But to the sheep i bet he does..