Obamacare: Say goodnight, Gracie...

[Alpo]

But saying people are saying things they aren't saying doesn't count.

Look at Steve's responses to the thread. ATM was not a voice crying in the wilderness on this point. You saying it does not make it so, just in error.

 

[jamil]

We have a representative form of government. Speak with your representatives. With me, talk to the hand.

Not really. Not anymore. We have an oligarchy supported by masses influenced by mass media. But anyway, your side seems to be outside looking in. I do hope they defund Planned Parenthood, and not even because they perform abortions, but because the things that PP does is not a legitimate function of government. At least not the one we were founded with.

 

[Alpo]

I not only start with that position, I end with it.

Your neener neer position is bankrupt, it exists merely to celebrate force.

I never liked paying taxes. I've always paid taxes. I expect to pay taxes until I die. I am a rational person.

 

[ATM]

16th Amendment. Get it repealed if you think it immoral. Or get with the program.

So... get theft repealed or get with the theft? No thanks, theft is immoral.

 

[Alpo]

Not really. Not anymore. We have an oligarchy supported by masses influenced by mass media. But anyway, your side seems to be outside looking in. I do hope they defund Planned Parenthood, and not even because they perform abortions, but because the things that PP does is not a legitimate function of government. At least not the one we were founded with.

We are no longer an agrarian society with slaves. Welcome to Century 21.

 

[Alpo]

So... get theft repealed or get with the theft? No thanks, theft is immoral.

Yes, you've said that. I heard you.

How bout those Cubbies?

 

[jamil]

We aren't talking about a range of reasonable possibilities when you start with the position that taxation is theft. That puts you outside of any window of negotiation. Therefore the only answer has to be: neener neener.

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my perspective, "taxation is theft" applies when it's taxation for things not constitutional. There is no basis other than crony smoke-n-mirors for collecting taxes to pay for "welfare".

 

[jamil]

We are no longer an agrarian society with slaves. Welcome to Century 21.

That has nothing to do with it and is not a legitimate defense of where we are now compared with where we started.

 

[Alpo]

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my perspective, "taxation is theft" applies when it's taxation for things not constitutional. There is no basis other than crony smoke-n-mirors for collecting taxes to pay for "welfare".

So you've said. You also had a question previously on "welfare". I think it is Article 8? I may be wrong. And the Preamble.

As to what it means, there are too many SCOTUS decisions to cite. LexisNexis is your friend.

 

[Alpo]

That has nothing to do with it and is not a legitimate defense of where we are now compared with where we started.

We are not where we started. We are 241 years down the road. We have flush toilets. We have quantum physics. Don't be a Luddite.

 

[jamil]

So you've said. You also had a question previously on "welfare". I think it is Article 8? I may be wrong. And the Preamble.

As to what it means, there are too many SCOTUS decisions to cite. LexisNexis is your friend.

Who can pay for a LexisNexis account? Decisions and conversations are easy enough as it is.

Why did it take America 150 years to start interpreting it your way? Why did it take 150 years to figure out how to open the till?

 

[Alpo]

Who can pay for a LexisNexis account? Decisions and conversations are easy enough as it is.

Why did it take America 150 years to start interpreting it your way? Why did it take 150 years to figure out how to open the till?

Why? The industrial revolution, that's why.

 

[jamil]

We are not where we started. We are 241 years down the road. We have flush toilets. We have quantum physics. Don't be a Luddite.

That sounds a lot like deflection. You know that's not what I'm talking about. If we can change laws just by saying a word means something different from what it meant before, then how can we say we're a nation of laws. We can then change laws with whims.

I think its fine if you want to make the law say that "welfare" now means the government may spend anything for any reason as long as they can attach some meaning of "welfare" to it. Okay. Fine. Change the law. Congress gave you the tools to do it. If you want the government to have the power to take people's hard earned resources, to give to someone who didn't toil for them, then amend the constitution. You should just get to rape the treasury like FDR did, and every democrat since.

 

[jamil]

Why? The industrial revolution, that's why.

Bull****.

 

[steveh_131]

16th Amendment. Get it repealed if you think it immoral. Or get with the program.

I can't get it repealed. I can vote for less spending which requires less theft. Because theft is immoral.

Why? The industrial revolution, that's why.

In your crazy world view, how did the industrial revolution even happen without Big Government to make it appear from thin air?

 

[Alpo]

That sounds a lot like deflection. You know that's not what I'm talking about. If we can change laws just by saying a word means something different from what it meant before, then how can we say we're a nation of laws. We can then change laws with whims.

I think its fine if you want to make the law say that "welfare" now means the government may spend anything for any reason as long as they can attach some meaning of "welfare" to it. Okay. Fine. Change the law. Congress gave you the tools to do it. If you want the government to have the power to take people's hard earned resources, to give to someone who didn't toil for them, then amend the constitution. You should just get to rape the treasury like FDR did, and every democrat since.

You have it backwards, amigo. These things you talk about me doing and changing have already been done! You are the one charged with your implementation of fairness and equity.

Don't tell me I'm deflecting when I represent the state of the world as it exists.

 

[Alpo]

Bull****.

History much?

 

[Alpo]

I can't get it repealed. I can vote for less spending which requires less theft. Because theft is immoral.

Is it becoming clear that no matter how many times you repeat that phrase, I won't agree with you? Even when you drop the dependent tax subject?

In your crazy world view, how did the industrial revolution even happen without Big Government to make it appear from thin air?

When do you believe Big Government was first introduced? What year?

 

[steveh_131]

Is it becoming clear that no matter how many times you repeat that phrase, I won't agree with you? Even when you drop the dependent tax subject?

What is becoming clear is that you either can't or refuse to follow a single train of thought in a discussion.

 

[Alpo]

I will not give you your assumptions or your re-write of reality. If that causes frustration, perhaps you should acknowledge that your philosophic principles are not widely held.