NY Police Arrest Citizen for Filming

[thebishopp]

So you think it would be acceptable for you to stand 3 feet behind an officer, verbalizing how much you dislike police, as he struggles to arrests your friend?

And what if frogs had hand grenades?

The fact is we are not playing a what if game here.

The lady was on her property filming a traffic stop. The person being stopped was cuffed and the officer doesn't initiate contact until after he was walking the suspect to the cruiser. Then AFTER the guy is in the car he walks over to her. The other officers don't appear to feel the same level of "fear" as this one, nor did they seem to care. He also didn't arrest her friend who picked up the camera and continued filming nor the others that were standing around (evidenced on the video). Seems like he only had a problem with that specific female.


She was not 3 feet away from an officer wrestling with a suspect resisting arrest.

As far as verbalizing how much one does not like police, that is yet to be made a crime or even PC for any sort of arrest. It would be a different story if the person was screaming and causing a huge disturbance which was NOT the case in this incident.

 

[RockofStrength]

So you think it would be acceptable for you to stand 3 feet behind an officer, verbalizing how much you dislike police, as he struggles to arrests your friend?

Am I preventing him from performing his duties in any way? Am I verbalizing threats (not merely insulting officers or expressing my dislike for cops, but actually threatening him) or making aggressive motions? If not, I think it would be legally acceptable to do as I please on my own land. I myself would probably give the officer some extra room if he requested it, but that is neither here nor there.

 

[Kutnupe14]

And what if frogs had hand grenades?

The fact is we are not playing a what if game here.

The lady was on her property filming a traffic stop. The person being stopped was cuffed and the officer doesn't initiate contact until after he was walking the suspect to the cruiser. Then AFTER the guy is in the car he walks over to her. The other officers don't appear to feel the same level of "fear" as this one, nor did they seem to care. He also didn't arrest her friend who picked up the camera and continued filming nor the others that were standing around (evidenced on the video). Seems like he only had a problem with that specific female.


She was not 3 feet away from an officer wrestling with a suspect resisting arrest.

As far as verbalizing how much one does not like police, that is yet to be made a crime or even PC for any sort of arrest. It would be a different story if the person was screaming and causing a huge disturbance which was NOT the case in this incident.

How about you watch the video a little more carefully. The primary officer made contact with the driver, cuffed and led the guy to his patrol vehicle. The other officers stoodby the vehicle, shining flashlights in. That's a clear indication that there are other occupants in the vehicle. Once the primary has the driver secured, he addresses the woman with the camera. The other officers take note of the woman; specifically the officer with his back to the woman, turns around and looks at the woman. Tactically that's a no-no, as if the occupants were legit bad guys, that's their opportunity to "make their move" on the distracted officer.
Based on the vid, were not able to decide how "bad" these guys were, but obviously, it was serious enough to put one guy in cuffs and have three officers present. And NOW some woman who indicates these guys are here friends, and verbalizes disparaging remarks about police, while standing less than 20ft away from police wants to play games on the side of the road? How far does a person with a knife need to get to their target, again?
The officer explained his position, and even asked politely that the woman back up or go inside. He didnt say he'd "break he face" like some other guys have.
Citizens can certainly film officers, there's no problem with that at all. The problem comes from the circumstances under which they are being filmed, who's filming, and the possiblity of them being a threat. In that vid, we have 3 officers, multiple suspects (one cuffed), and friend of the suspects standing a few yards away. To me that IS an officer safety issue. The officer makes a legit request in asking the girl to remove herslf.
Let's not be coy, she was filming the officers so that they would take note of her. She could have easily done her filming from further back. I don't want anybody distracting me from the business, at hand, especially friends of the suspects.
That woman created her own problem. This is where the problem lies with LE and civilian interactions. These 3 officers were hopefully taking some more problems off the street, and this chick wants to kick up a confrontation? Really? Seriously?
There's a vid of a couple of officers that were addressing a "problem" in a store and were both subsequently killed by the "friend" who ran from the back of the store and put bullets in both their heads. That video still gives me chills... if anyone has it post it up.

 

[FutureButterBar]

Wow! I wish that was my neighbourhood. If he didn't feel safe then he could have moved his traffic stop down the road. I bet she wins a boatload from the settlement. Cops can be such douchebags sometimes! How can you arrest someone on their property for not following your orders when they are illegal to begin with? I would have asked if he had a warrant and if not, to get the hell off my property! JBT's!!!

a warrent is not need if the officer sees a misdomeaner or suspects a felony.

laws are to govern those who are too stupid to govern themselves. not to protect you.

 

[thebishopp]

How about you watch the video a little more carefully. The primary officer made contact with the driver, cuffed and led the guy to his patrol vehicle. The other officers stoodby the vehicle, shining flashlights in. That's a clear indication that there are other occupants in the vehicle. Once the primary has the driver secured, he addresses the woman with the camera. The other officers take note of the woman; specifically the officer with his back to the woman, turns around and looks at the woman. Tactically that's a no-no, as if the occupants were legit bad guys, that's their opportunity to "make their move" on the distracted officer.
Based on the vid, were not able to decide how "bad" these guys were, but obviously, it was serious enough to put one guy in cuffs and have three officers present. And NOW some woman who indicates these guys are here friends, and verbalizes disparaging remarks about police, while standing less than 20ft away from police wants to play games on the side of the road? How far does a person with a knife need to get to their target, again?
The officer explained his position, and even asked politely that the woman back up or go inside. He didnt say he'd "break he face" like some other guys have.
Citizens can certainly film officers, there's no problem with that at all. The problem comes from the circumstances under which they are being filmed, who's filming, and the possiblity of them being a threat. In that vid, we have 3 officers, multiple suspects (one cuffed), and friend of the suspects standing a few yards away. To me that IS an officer safety issue. The officer makes a legit request in asking the girl to remove herslf.
Let's not be coy, she was filming the officers so that they would take note of her. She could have easily done her filming from further back. I don't want anybody distracting me from the business, at hand, especially friends of the suspects.
That woman created her own problem. This is where the problem lies with LE and civilian interactions. These 3 officers were hopefully taking some more problems off the street, and this chick wants to kick up a confrontation? Really? Seriously?
There's a vid of a couple of officers that were addressing a "problem" in a store and were both subsequently killed by the "friend" who ran from the back of the store and put bullets in both their heads. That video still gives me chills... if anyone has it post it up.

You do know that the guy they originally cuffed was released and they took the woman to jail? Also there was no one else in the car. They were searching it for drugs (which they did not find as they released the driver). In fact you can see this if you watch the video full screen (no one else in the car).

Woman arrested for filming police from home — RT

You do know that there were more people than just her standing out there right? There is her friend and the other "witnesses" that her friend interviewed on the video. The friend didn't walk down the street to talk to them, they were right there. The officer didn't address any of them, he just addressed the woman who was visibly recording him.

No where on the video does she initiate a contact with him and videoing him is not "initiating" contact. All we have is his claims that she said "something anti-cop" to him, conveniently before she started recording. Which doesn't even matter anyway unless she said something like "I'm gonna kill yah" or something equally threatening, and if she did it should of been addressed right there rather than waiting till later. That is a tactical "no-no".

As far as your knife question - that's 20 feet with a knife give or take. It takes less than 1-2 seconds. Gunsite (If I recall correctly) used to give an example and that was back in the early to mid nineties. You need to keep in mind this was for dealing with a subject with an exposed bladed weapon. It was to show that he could close the distance a lot quicker than one would believe because many were under the misconception that it took a lot longer and that they had more time to draw and fire. Officers were getting stabbed even after shooting a subject because his momentum kept him coming at them. This example helped prompt training in "getting off the x" (officer's tendency to stand in one place). In addition it was to help answer civil liability questions as well as public opinion on shootings when the subject was that far away. It was, erroneously, perceived by the public (as well as some officer's as noted) that a LEO was not in danger when dealing with someone with a bladed weapon at that distance.

You are trying to apply that to this situation and you are doing so erroneously. She had a camera (an iphone according to the article). If he was really worried about her he could of done a stop and frisk (of course he would have to do that with everyone in the immediate area as well to be fair.).

You talk about tactical no-no's and yet advocate having the officer send this woman who is supposedly "anti-cop" and is such a threat, inside her house. Where if she was truly a threat, she could break out a rifle and shoot at them from the cover of her house while they were out in the street? You need to rethink your "tacticool" thinking. I've seen some pretty stupid things done that actually put you in more danger by people trying to be "tacticool".

Now as far as to why she was videoing the officer. IT DOESN'T MATTER. For now there is no law against it, thank god, our founding fathers, and Supreme and state court rulings. We could speculate from now until eternity but as the saying goes, "what does that have to do with the price of tea in china?"


Since you are determined to play the "what if frogs had hand grenades game":

The scenario you give about some guy running out of a backroom actually support my last statement about sending the woman inside. If you wish to make it more accurate of an analogy it would go like this:

The officers sent the subject to the back of the store because they felt he was a threat. After sending him to the back he got a gun from somewhere and shot them from in the backs since they were no longer paying attention to him. After all, they had sent him, a serious threat, out of their sight and into an area where he could obtain or ready his weapon.

In the real life version you stated the truth is that if the guy had not been hidden in the "back room" then those officer's who were shot would have been in a better position to deal with him. While I do not know the details of the incident, going purely off of what you stated, they had no idea he was back there and armed. Had he been in sight they would have been able to keep an eye on him or at the very least taken steps to be sure he didn't have a weapon.

How about you follow your own advice and watch the video more closely.

 

[2A_Tom]

Indiana Supreme court would uphold this on the grounds that is dangerous to public safety to resist the Unlawful orders of or Unlawful arest by police officers.

 

[level.eleven]

A little bit of a follow up arrest of the Rochester lady arrested for recording police. Apparently there was a community meeting to discuss the actions of police. The police responded by diverting 5 units from serving the community to issue some parking tickets.

Rochester police use selective enforcement of parking laws to harass attendees at a meeting in support of Emily Good - Boing Boing

No arrests were reported.

 

[SirRealism]

A little bit of a follow up arrest of the Rochester lady arrested for recording police. Apparently there was a community meeting to discuss the actions of police. The police responded by diverting 5 units from serving the community to issue some parking tickets.

Rochester police use selective enforcement of parking laws to harass attendees at a meeting in support of Emily Good - Boing Boing

No arrests were reported.

5 units dispached... to ticket people for being 12.5" from the curb? Seriously?

 

[Kutnupe14]

5 units dispached... to ticket people for being 12.5" from the curb? Seriously?

.....

 

[SirRealism]

.....

BTW, what's the legal distance from the curb in Carmel? Do you carry a ruler?

 

[level.eleven]

5 units dispached... to ticket people for being 12.5" from the curb? Seriously?

Maybe they were doing a curb violation sweep that day at the exact time and location of the meeting.

On a good note, they seem to have a great police department. A "citizen complaint" about parking yields 5 cars and countless officers. That is service!

 

[thebishopp]

5 units dispached... to ticket people for being 12.5" from the curb? Seriously?

Wow, they are just shoveling it over themselves aren't they? If I was the chief I'd be going bat **** crazy about now. All they are doing is solidifying a civil case against them and making police everywhere look bad.
Prior to this there was much more doubt about the PD's actions, something like this comes off as purely retaliatory and merely convinces the public majority that this Department has problems and the police there are not to be trusted.

 

[RockofStrength]

I admit, the fact that they played their hands so well actually makes me happier. I always hate those ambiguous situations...

I had been hopeful that the PD would attempt to remain unbiased in this, but I guess not...

 

[Expat]

If they can dispatch 5 units to bust up a curb violating gang, they must not have much else going on there in town. If I was a violent crime victim during that time period, I would be tempted to file suit against the City.

 

[dross]

.....

Question for you: Do you truly believe the officer was worried for his safety? Or did he just want to deal with an irritating person using his power?

You've played devil's advocate. What do you think actually happened here?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Question for you: Do you truly believe the officer was worried for his safety? Or did he just want to deal with an irritating person using his power?

You've played devil's advocate. What do you think actually happened here?

I'll get back to you.... headin out for 12 or so hours

 

[KG1]

I'll get back to you.... headin out for 12 or so hours

No rush,we got time

 

[spearheadersarge]

Time for the people of Rochester to reign in their police dept. She will obviously sue and when a settlement is offered I would play hardball. I would counter their offer with a millon dollars minimum, public apology from the officer and all members of his chain of command to include the elected officials and 100 per cent participation of the entire force retrained on community relations and abuse of power. If not they could see me in court!

 

[level.eleven]

Another update from the local news, including a quote from the police.

Police ticket cars, citizens claim harassment | www.WHEC.com

The city is also facing a $50 million budget shortfall and 27 police positions are set to be cut.

City Council Takes Hard Look at Police, Fire Budgets - YNN, Your News Now

You really wouldn't expect a department to undertake such vindictive actions against a community reviewing their budget.

 

[RockofStrength]

Another update from the local news, including a quote from the police.

Police ticket cars, citizens claim harassment | www.WHEC.com

The city is also facing a $50 million budget shortfall and 27 police positions are set to be cut.

City Council Takes Hard Look at Police, Fire Budgets - YNN, Your News Now

You really wouldn't expect a department to undertake such vindictive actions against a community reviewing their budget.

"City police officers write ticket every night after parking enforcement officers leave for the day. And if there's a parking infraction they come across in their patrol areas, they will write those violations. That's part of their job."

I suppose he often sends them out in hunting packs of five that simultaneously converge on single locations looking for parking infractions as well.