NRA: On the Second Amendment, Don’t Believe Obama!

[4sarge]

This is very true. I've not found any other threads interesting enough to post to yet. I take my politics very seriously, but despite that, have avoided the more 'flaming' Obama threads I've read through despite obvious baiting. I'm not trying to start or flame a fight. But this thread -is- entitled about Obama, and I am staying on topic. I'm just not knuckling to the back-patting hoorah's of every Obama-Hater on the forum (which seems to be the 90% majority). Or maybe you prefer that everyone just all agree on a topic, and avoid any potential discussion.....

If you are Not a Moveon.org or Obama plant your missing a great opportunity. Obama is strictly an anti gun liberal. Sphynx where in Indiana are you located? Your bio is a little sketchy to say the least and you appeared at about the same time as this new member 林一海 Are Obama's handlers that worried that they feel the need to flood every pro gun group or Internet message board with bogus Obama propoganda

 

[Sphynx]

The laws he proposes attacks the people getting guns into the illegal hands. You're right, we don't need more laws to say illegal gun ownership is wrong, we need laws that law-abiding citizens and companies will follow that will limit the access the illegals have to those guns. You know, like the ones that put pressure on gun manufacturers, and gun re-salers.

To handle a situation like this, you have to curtail the method that the illegals use to gain access to guns. And you have to do it in a manner that makes sure it works.

 

[BloodEclipse]

If he was indeed an Obama plant I would think he would be having the exact opposite effect that they would be wanting.

 

[Justus]

Sphynx:
Thanks, this has been very enlightening.

 

[Justus]

If he was indeed an Obama plant I would think he would be having the exact opposite effect that they would be wanting.

He's not denying it

 

[Sphynx]

4Sarge, I'm not in Indiana. I live abroad, but Indianapolis/Southport/Greenwood is my registered 'home' and I vote with Indiana voters.

And I'm not an Obama plant, though this place obviously needs one. :P

 

[BloodEclipse]

The laws he proposes attacks the people getting guns into the illegal hands. You're right, we don't need more laws to say illegal gun ownership is wrong, we need laws that law-abiding citizens and companies will follow that will limit the access the illegals have to those guns. You know, like the ones that put pressure on gun manufacturers, and gun re-salers.

To handle a situation like this, you have to curtail the method that the illegals use to gain access to guns. And you have to do it in a manner that makes sure it works.

Ok now you are looking more like an Obama talking points plant.
Illegal guns come from illegal sources not from the resalers. In Britian guns are smuggled in. Same thing happens here. You want to punish law abiding people. Bad guys will always be able to get illegal weapons.... no LAW will change that, but hey don't let that stop you lets burden every law abiding citizen with more unneeded laws.

 

[4sarge]

4Sarge, I'm not in Indiana. I live abroad, but Indianapolis/Southport/Greenwood is my registered 'home' and I vote with Indiana voters.

And I'm not an Obama plant, though this place obviously needs one. :P

Good to hear that you live and work in the Netherlands, vote in Indiana, espouse Obama rhetoric and own an M16. It must be a very good life for you

 

[4sarge]

By John C. Sigler

Pretenders Dressed As Patriots

As a history buff, I am often intrigued by the similarities between war and politics. With Independence Day approaching and Election Day soon to follow, I’m reminded of how deception has been used as an effective weapon in both war and politics since the American Revolution.

Without a doubt, deception and double-dealing are at work during this election season. That’s why you must be prepared to separate the patriots from the pretenders as we work together to preserve and defend our God-given Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
A perfect example of duplicity and deception at work is the so-called American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA), which claims to support your Second Amendment rights—yet attacks your NRA and endorses Barack Obama for president.

If you’re confused, concerned and confounded when a supposedly “pro-gun” group endorses the same Obama who wants to ban all handguns, outlaw all semi-automatic firearms, shut down nearly every gun store in America and abolish “Right-to-Carry” nationwide, you’re not alone.

Telling gun owners to vote for Obama is like telling chickens to vote for Colonel Sanders. Yet in effect, that’s exactly what AHSA is doing, apparently believing that gun owners like you and me are either gullible or stupid, or both.

I have a message for them— “We’re not!”

When you learn who actually runs AHSA, their motives and the method behind their madness become amazingly clear. Indeed, AHSA’s board of directors and executive leadership reads like a “Who’s Who of the Gun-Ban Elites.”

AHSA’s executive director is Bob Ricker. Ricker switched sides after an unsuccessful stint as a gun industry lobbyist, and went to work for anti-gun forces in their efforts to sue the firearm industry out of existence.

AHSA spokesman Ray Schoenke has given thousands of dollars to Handgun Control, Inc. He has also given political contributions to most of the gun-ban luminaries in Washington, D.C., including John Kerry, Al Gore, Bill Clinton, Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein.
John Rosenthal, the founder and chairman of Stop Handgun Violence, a Boston anti-gun group, left the board of directors of the American Hunters and Shooters Association only after his ties to gun-ban groups became widely known.

AHSA board member Jody Powell was once press secretary for President Carter, whose Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) grew so abusive of law-abiding gun owners’ rights that it spurred three major congressional investigations.

The bottom line is that the American Hunters and Shooters Association is nothing more than a front group for extremist politicians seeking to divide gun owners and deceive you into supporting anti-gun candidates.

But AHSA isn’t alone. In our fight to defend your Second Amendment rights, we’ve seen an increasing number of such deceptive operations in recent years.

Remember Americans for Gun Safety? This is the group that sold itself as being “mainstream” on the gun issue—yet its billionaire founder, Andrew McKelvey, was a board member of Handgun Control, Inc., and the primary money man behind the Million Mom March.
Since 2000, when Al Gore used that failed event for his own campaign pep rally—and Hillary Clinton stood shoulder-to-shoulder with Rosie O’Donnell, vowing to push gun owner licensing, gun registration and other anti-gun schemes—gun-ban politicians have become much less open and honest about their true intentions regarding your rights.

So now, when Hillary Clinton visits a state with a large population of hunters and gun owners, she theatrically reminisces about how, when she was growing up, her father allegedly took her duck hunting … and puts out amazingly hypocritical mailings attacking Obama as anti-gun!

Meanwhile, AHSA tells us how Barack Obama supposedly “gets it” regarding the Second Amendment because he has pledged to “protect the rights of hunters” to own firearms “for the purposes of hunting and target shooting.”

Since when does the Bill of Rights say anything about hunting or target shooting? And what about keeping and bearing arms to protect yourself and your freedom?

As for self-defense, Obama has been consistent and clear. According to Obama, who touts himself as a former “constitutional law professor,” the Second Amendment doesn’t prevent Washington, D.C. and Chicago, Ill.
from banning self-defense guns in citizens’ homes.

As the most important elections in generations approach, I ask you to spread the word like Paul Revere did two centuries ago, to fellow hunters, shooters and gun owners in every city, village and farm—“Don’t be fooled by pretenders dressed as patriots.”

Do your part now. It is absolutely critical that you help to ensure that the freedoms for which our Founding Fathers fought so hard so long ago won’t be stolen and destroyed by “false-flag” organizations controlled by anti-gun politicians through election-year deception, obfuscation and subterfuge.

 

[bwframe]

^ Sure hopin' the McCain naysayers are seeing this! ^

 

[Justus]

Sphynx Please Read:
I'd like to end my participation in this thread with one more point.

You say you support Obama on his current agenda and not his past performance

yet
You say firearm ownership should be based on a person's past behavior and stability.
This is a contradiction.

Politicians will say anything to get elected.
I judge a man's character by the company he keeps and
his past deeds.
Obama's character should be judged by his past performance and
we have very little to refer to. That troubles me.
His friends so far have not impressed me (racist preacher and an ex-car bomber among others)
His past efforts and statements at ALL levels have been less than supportive for law-abiding
firearm ownership.

 

[DustinG]

So according to sphynx's interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, this means that they are rights to a point. So how about the 19th Amendment, women only have a right to vote to a point, not all women should have a right to vote? Then how about the 13th Amendment, slavery abolishment, so slavery should only be abolished to a point?

My favorite, the 16th Amendment, income tax, we can choose to pay income tax or not pay it? The Amendments to the Constitution are meant for all, no conditions, even the paying taxes part reluctantly!

Now the right to bear arms, the Supreme Court has argued that it pertains to the militia, but if you read it clearly, the comma is meant to be an and clause. But if you don't interpret it that way, the militias historically were the people, the first part gives people the right without the permission of the state to form a militia, because states back then did not have the revenue to support a militia. The people were the militia, so the right to bear arms is given to the people and should never be infringed!

 

[Crystalship1]

Alert everyone: Sphynx doesn't even live in the USA. He's just a pot-stirrer!!! I'm going to be ignoring (not blocking) him from now on. Just an FYI not to get your blood pressure too high over this dude. Spread the word!!! :rolleyesedit:

 

[Pami]

Alert everyone: Sphynx doesn't even live in the USA. He's just a pot-stirrer!!! I'm going to be ignoring (not blocking) him from now on. Just an FYI not to get your blood pressure too high over this dude. Spread the word!!! :rolleyesedit:

Correct in that he does not live in the US right now. He moved to Europe in 2001, but still has many friends and family here, most of whom live in central Indiana. Correct that it's pointless to get your blood pressure too high over his questions and statements, since he has already stated that this forum was obviously not the place for us to catch up on old times and probably won't be returning, so continuing to argue with his posts is pointless because you'll be talking to yourself and others who agree with you. I wish he'd read some of the other posts, because I think he'd actually agree with them (the OODA loop posts come to mind...).

He is not an intentional pot-stirrer, unlike some other members we have had here in the past. He is not an "Obama plant." He is very inquisitive, very firm in his views and perspective (with good reason), and very difficult to change those views and perspectives. No, I do not agree with everything he said. But there is no need to continue flaming him unless you feel the need to continue preaching to the choir.

 

[Glock Lover]

By John C. Sigler

Pretenders Dressed As Patriots

As a history buff, I am often intrigued by the similarities between war and politics. With Independence Day approaching and Election Day soon to follow, I’m reminded of how deception has been used as an effective weapon in both war and politics since the American Revolution.

Without a doubt, deception and double-dealing are at work during this election season. That’s why you must be prepared to separate the patriots from the pretenders as we work together to preserve and defend our God-given Right to Keep and Bear Arms.
A perfect example of duplicity and deception at work is the so-called American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA), which claims to support your Second Amendment rights—yet attacks your NRA and endorses Barack Obama for president.

If you’re confused, concerned and confounded when a supposedly “pro-gun” group endorses the same Obama who wants to ban all handguns, outlaw all semi-automatic firearms, shut down nearly every gun store in America and abolish “Right-to-Carry” nationwide, you’re not alone.

Telling gun owners to vote for Obama is like telling chickens to vote for Colonel Sanders. Yet in effect, that’s exactly what AHSA is doing, apparently believing that gun owners like you and me are either gullible or stupid, or both.

I have a message for them— “We’re not!”

When you learn who actually runs AHSA, their motives and the method behind their madness become amazingly clear. Indeed, AHSA’s board of directors and executive leadership reads like a “Who’s Who of the Gun-Ban Elites.”

AHSA’s executive director is Bob Ricker. Ricker switched sides after an unsuccessful stint as a gun industry lobbyist, and went to work for anti-gun forces in their efforts to sue the firearm industry out of existence.

AHSA spokesman Ray Schoenke has given thousands of dollars to Handgun Control, Inc. He has also given political contributions to most of the gun-ban luminaries in Washington, D.C., including John Kerry, Al Gore, Bill Clinton, Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein.
John Rosenthal, the founder and chairman of Stop Handgun Violence, a Boston anti-gun group, left the board of directors of the American Hunters and Shooters Association only after his ties to gun-ban groups became widely known.

AHSA board member Jody Powell was once press secretary for President Carter, whose Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) grew so abusive of law-abiding gun owners’ rights that it spurred three major congressional investigations.

The bottom line is that the American Hunters and Shooters Association is nothing more than a front group for extremist politicians seeking to divide gun owners and deceive you into supporting anti-gun candidates.

But AHSA isn’t alone. In our fight to defend your Second Amendment rights, we’ve seen an increasing number of such deceptive operations in recent years.

Remember Americans for Gun Safety? This is the group that sold itself as being “mainstream” on the gun issue—yet its billionaire founder, Andrew McKelvey, was a board member of Handgun Control, Inc., and the primary money man behind the Million Mom March.
Since 2000, when Al Gore used that failed event for his own campaign pep rally—and Hillary Clinton stood shoulder-to-shoulder with Rosie O’Donnell, vowing to push gun owner licensing, gun registration and other anti-gun schemes—gun-ban politicians have become much less open and honest about their true intentions regarding your rights.

So now, when Hillary Clinton visits a state with a large population of hunters and gun owners, she theatrically reminisces about how, when she was growing up, her father allegedly took her duck hunting … and puts out amazingly hypocritical mailings attacking Obama as anti-gun!

Meanwhile, AHSA tells us how Barack Obama supposedly “gets it” regarding the Second Amendment because he has pledged to “protect the rights of hunters” to own firearms “for the purposes of hunting and target shooting.”

Since when does the Bill of Rights say anything about hunting or target shooting? And what about keeping and bearing arms to protect yourself and your freedom?

As for self-defense, Obama has been consistent and clear. According to Obama, who touts himself as a former “constitutional law professor,” the Second Amendment doesn’t prevent Washington, D.C. and Chicago, Ill.
from banning self-defense guns in citizens’ homes.

As the most important elections in generations approach, I ask you to spread the word like Paul Revere did two centuries ago, to fellow hunters, shooters and gun owners in every city, village and farm—“Don’t be fooled by pretenders dressed as patriots.”

Do your part now. It is absolutely critical that you help to ensure that the freedoms for which our Founding Fathers fought so hard so long ago won’t be stolen and destroyed by “false-flag” organizations controlled by anti-gun politicians through election-year deception, obfuscation and subterfuge.

 

[BloodEclipse]

Correct in that he does not live in the US right now. He moved to Europe in 2001, but still has many friends and family here, most of whom live in central Indiana. Correct that it's pointless to get your blood pressure too high over his questions and statements, since he has already stated that this forum was obviously not the place for us to catch up on old times and probably won't be returning, so continuing to argue with his posts is pointless because you'll be talking to yourself and others who agree with you. I wish he'd read some of the other posts, because I think he'd actually agree with them (the OODA loop posts come to mind...).

He is not an intentional pot-stirrer, unlike some other members we have had here in the past. He is not an "Obama plant." He is very inquisitive, very firm in his views and perspective (with good reason), and very difficult to change those views and perspectives. No, I do not agree with everything he said. But there is no need to continue flaming him unless you feel the need to continue preaching to the choir.

I for one wish he would have stayed. As I said in his introduction if he read through these forums with an open mind he might learn somethings. I don't mind Debate. Differing views are a good thing but part of that is listening not just spouting a point of view as fact and then not accepting a counter point if the evidence supports it.
Pami you can tell him if he wants to discuss or debate any topic he can PM me if he feels hated here I for one think this is just one of the lost sheep and he just needs to be shown the way.

 

[Pami]

I for one wish he would have stayed. As I said in his introduction if he read through these forums with an open mind he might learn somethings. I don't mind Debate. Differing views are a good thing but part of that is listening not just spouting a point of view as fact and then not accepting a counter point if the evidence supports it.
Pami you can tell him if he wants to discuss or debate any topic he can PM me if he feels hated here I for one think this is just one of the lost sheep and he just needs to be shown the way.

I've sent him a couple PMs to that effect already.
I don't agree with everything he says; I also don't agree with a lot of things other people on this forum say either. I generally choose to stay quiet on the things I disagree with unless it's something I feel strongly about.
I think he'd have some interesting (in a good way) things to add to the forum, if everyone would just agree to disagree.

 

[4sarge]

Any chance that this guy may be showing up later, William Charles ("Bill") Ayers. He seems to sit at the right hand of Obama and I'm sure he is full of political wisdom.

What about this guy 林一海, seems INGunOwners is becoming quite the radical rage

INGunOwners - View Profile: 林一海

Obama will play a scheming role in helping changes in China,bringing down Hu Jintao?

__________________
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/4/boy...ijing-olympics
Last edited by 林一海 : 18 Hours Ago at 00:35. Reason: 北京奥运 我不支持!

Looks like I may need to brush up on my Chinese

 

[BloodEclipse]

voa.gov isn't that Voice of America? Yet he is a Communist.... ahhh he must be a Democrat.