You know how many times our office heard from JFPO (or GOA for that matter) when i worked in Congress. Zero. Zilch. Nada. The NRA member dues cannot, by law, be used for political advocacy. NRA-PVF is funded by voluntarily donations and does not commingle funds with the NRA member funds.
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NRA donates $50 shy of MAXIMUM contribution amount to Reid.
- Thread starter Prometheus
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You know how many times our office heard from JFPO (or GOA for that matter) when i worked in Congress. Zero. Zilch. Nada. The NRA member dues cannot, by law, be used for political advocacy. NRA-PVF is funded by voluntarily donations and does not commingle funds with the NRA member funds.
subtlesixer03
Expert
- Apr 22, 2010
- 896
- 18
one more reason to throw nra mail straight to the can. and think i used to be a paying meber that was working on being a lifer. not anymore
To which lobby that protects your gun rights do you give your money now?
Field King
Expert
- Oct 26, 2008
- 957
- 18
I wouldn't give that gun range 2 cents, sounds like dictators!My Gun range makes it a requirement to be a member of the NRA before you can be a a member at the range.Otherwise I wouldn't give them 2 cents.
dukeboy_318
Master
There's alot of clubs that require nra memebership to be part of their club. While I was against it at first, you'd be surprised how much the nra contributes to each club from those dues. Also I did some research on harry ried gun voting habits and I was surprised how often he voted progun. That doesn't mean I like the guy, I can't stand him at all, just surprised
barrelmaker_2002
Sharpshooter
Any one who thinks the their NRA dues are used to support political candidates apparently does not know squat about election laws.
If you do not contribute directly to the NRA-PVF then your money has not been used to support any candidate.
Harry Reid has been a reliable vote on the 2nd Amendment and the NRA only declined to endorse him after the Kagan hearings. Of course, they did not endorse him in 2004 either, but I digress.
If you do not contribute directly to the NRA-PVF then your money has not been used to support any candidate.
Harry Reid has been a reliable vote on the 2nd Amendment and the NRA only declined to endorse him after the Kagan hearings. Of course, they did not endorse him in 2004 either, but I digress.
I haven't read the articals on here, not really an NRA fan myself but here is something to consider:
I am the NRA for this, and I have 2 funds, a general fund and a donations fund. General fund just keeps the lights on covers whatever. Donation fund it given out as political donations. If my general fund is high, I can either transfer some into the donation fund. Maybe not member dues as was pointed out but I could route other sources of income to the donations fund. If my general fund was low, then I might have to hold back on some donations.
Point is, while it may be a fact and provable that member dues don't go to the political donation fund, you should fully expect that by paying your dues your money is being used at the very least indirectly to enable more political donations to be made.
If you think this is a good or bad thing, that is up to you. I just wanted to make sure folks are aware that money in our times is largely just a digital paper game. That money can be proven to have gone anywhere they want it to.
Donate if you want, signup/pay dues whatever. But don't think that you aren't giving money to political canidates regardless of if you're being told that is the case or not. I'm not saying that folks should cancel their membership and stop paying dues. I don't really like the NRA, and at this time I wont support them. I do acknowledge the good that they do-or have done, but it's just not all good, and I don't want to give them my money. At this time they're just wasting you alls dues (upwards of $1.00 total by my estimate) by sending me a temp plastic membership card and asking me to sign up. I've gotten 2 of these in the last month and a half. Good use of money.
I only bring all of this up because it was pointed out that by laws member dues can't go to donations. Yeah, sure, but there are ways around that law too. Just don't think it isn't happening when it almost assuredly is. But again for those proud NRA members, keep supporting them. They do do good, just not always as much or what those of us who frown upon them would like to see.
I am the NRA for this, and I have 2 funds, a general fund and a donations fund. General fund just keeps the lights on covers whatever. Donation fund it given out as political donations. If my general fund is high, I can either transfer some into the donation fund. Maybe not member dues as was pointed out but I could route other sources of income to the donations fund. If my general fund was low, then I might have to hold back on some donations.
Point is, while it may be a fact and provable that member dues don't go to the political donation fund, you should fully expect that by paying your dues your money is being used at the very least indirectly to enable more political donations to be made.
If you think this is a good or bad thing, that is up to you. I just wanted to make sure folks are aware that money in our times is largely just a digital paper game. That money can be proven to have gone anywhere they want it to.
Donate if you want, signup/pay dues whatever. But don't think that you aren't giving money to political canidates regardless of if you're being told that is the case or not. I'm not saying that folks should cancel their membership and stop paying dues. I don't really like the NRA, and at this time I wont support them. I do acknowledge the good that they do-or have done, but it's just not all good, and I don't want to give them my money. At this time they're just wasting you alls dues (upwards of $1.00 total by my estimate) by sending me a temp plastic membership card and asking me to sign up. I've gotten 2 of these in the last month and a half. Good use of money.
I only bring all of this up because it was pointed out that by laws member dues can't go to donations. Yeah, sure, but there are ways around that law too. Just don't think it isn't happening when it almost assuredly is. But again for those proud NRA members, keep supporting them. They do do good, just not always as much or what those of us who frown upon them would like to see.
Blue Tile Spook
Master
The last NRA mag that I got, this was explained just as you wrote here. The "article" was asking for donations directly to NRA-PVF because monies couldn't be transferred between accounts.
Marketing. Simply marketing - and it works, or is profitable.
I read an article about the billions of spam messages that were sent in a particular year. Even though only a fraction of a percent of people on the internet responded to the spam, it was still a very profitable adventure. If we use your $1.00 cost/card example, for a membership fee of $35.00, after administration costs are paid, that's 35 cards that can be sent out in mailers. It is profitable for them. It won't cover the cost of paying legal-beagles to argue cases in front of the USSC, but it'll keep the lights on.
I beg to differ. This horse has left the barn LONG ago.
1. June 28, 1991—Voted for a 5 day waiting period for handgun purchases (Vote No. 115).
2. November 19, 1993—Voted to eliminate the five-year sunset in the Brady Bill's five day waiting period, which would have made the waiting period permanent (Vote No. 386).
3. November 19, 1993—Voted to end a filibuster led by pro-gun Senators against the Brady Bill (Vote No. 387).
4. November 20, 1993—Voted for the Brady Bill, which imposed a 5-day waiting period before purchasing a handgun (Vote No. 394).
5. August 25, 1994—Voted to end a filibuster led by pro-gun Senators against the Clinton Crime Bill, which contained the ban on many semi-automatic firearms (the so-called "assualt weapons ban; Vote No. 294).
6. August 25, 1994—Voted for the Clinton Crime Bill, which contained the ban on many semi-automatic firearms (the so-called "assault weapons" ban; Vote No. 295).
7. April 17, 1996—Voted to expand the statute of limitations for paperwork violations in the National Firearms Act from 3 years to 5 years (Vote No. 64).
8. June 27, 1996—Voted to destroy 176,000 M-1 Garand rifles from World War II, and 150 million rounds of .30 caliber ammunition, rather than giving them to the Federal Civilian Marksmanship program (Vote No. 178).
9. September 12, 1996—Voted to spend $21.5 million for a study on putting "taggants" in black and smokeless gunpowder (Vote No. 287).
10. September 12, 1996—Voted to make it a Federal crime to possess a gun within 1,000 feet of any school, private or public, and impose a 5-year prison sentence for violating the law (Vote No. 290).
11. July 28, 1998—Voted against killing an amendment offered by Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-CA) to prohibit the importation of firearm magazines holding over 10 rounds that were manufactured before the 1994 ban was enacted (Vote No. 240).
12. May 12, 1999—Voted to ban the private sales of firearms at gun shows unless buyers submitted to background registration checks. Draconian restrictions would have also been imposed on gun show promoters, expanding federal authority in this area (Vote No. 111).
13. May 13, 1999—Voted to ban the importation of ammunition magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds (Vote No. 116).
14. May 14, 1999—Voted for an amendment introduced by Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY) that would regulate the transfer of firearms over the Internet (Vote No. 119).
15. May 18, 1999—Voted for an amendment to force gun sellers to include trigger locks with every handgun sold (Vote No. 122).
16. May 20, 1999—Voted for legislation to subject repair shop and pawn shop transactions to the same registration and background check requirements as purchases from dealers—even if a person was reclaiming his own firearm (Vote No. 133).
17. May 20, 1999—Voted for an amendment offered by Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) that would ban private sales at gun shows, unless the buyer first submits to a background registration check. Even displaying a firearm at a gun show, and subsequently transferring that gun to a non-licensee, would result in a two-year prison sentence. The amendment would also have granted BATF open-ended inspection authority to harass vendors at gun shows, and explicitly gives BATF the right to keep a gun owner registration list for up to 90 days. This amendment passed 51-50, with Vice President Al Gore breaking the tie (Vote No. 134).
18. May 20, 1999—Voted for the Clinton Juvenile Justice bill, which contained a host of gun control provisions (Vote No. 140).
19. July 28, 1999—Voted to end a filibuster on the Clinton Juvenile Justice bill. The filibuster was led by Sen. Bib Smith (R-NH) because of concerns with the gun control provisions in the bill (Vote No. 224).
20. February 2, 2000—Voted for an amendment offered by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI) and Charles Schumer (D-NY) to help the cities bring frivolous suits against gun makers (Vote No. 4).
21. March 2, 2000—Voted for an amendment offered by Sens. Barbara Boxer (D-CA) and Charles Schumer (D-NY) blaming school violence on the fact that Congress "failed to pass reasonable, common-sense gun control measures" and call for new gun ownership restrictions on the anniversary of the Columbine shootings (Vote No. 28).
22. March 2, 2000—Voted to use Federal taxpayer funds to hand out anti-gun literature in schools and to run anti-gun public service announcements (Vote No. 32).
23. April 6, 2000—Voted for and cosponsored a "sense of the Senate" amendment urging the passage of new gun control restrictions (Vote No. 64).
24. March 2, 2000—Voted for an amendment offered by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA) urging the passage of the ant-gun juvenile crime bill being opposed by GOA (Vote No. 28).
25. April 10, 2000—Voted for a non-binding amendment offered by Sen. Jack Reed (D-RI) urging the House-Senate conferees to get the juvenile anti-gun bill to the floor of each chamber by April 20 (Vote No. 64).
26. May 17, 2000—Voted with 29 other F-rated Senators against an amendment stating "the right of each law-abiding United States citizen to own a firearm for any legitimate purpose, including self-defense or recreation, should not be infringed." (Vote No. 103).
27. May 17, 2000—Voted for a resolution praising the participants of the so-called Million Mom March, and calling on Congress to pass the anti-gun juvenile crime bill that GOA was fighting (Vote No. 104).
28. April 2, 2001—Voted for the Incumbent Protection Act, so-called campaign finance reform (Vote No. 64).
29. March 20, 2002—Voted to end a filibuster of the odious Incumbent Protection bill. The blatantly unconstitutional legislation squelches the voice of groups like Gun Owners of America in the final days before an election. By making it difficult, if not impossible, for groups to criticize the anti-gun actions of legislators prior to an election, incumbents are able to duck accountability for those actions (Vote No. 53).
30. February 26, 2004—Voted for an amendment to require all handgun purchasers to pay an implicit "gun tax" by requiring them to buy a trigger lock when they purchase their handgun, irrespective of need. In addition, the amendment would create a broad cause of action against gun owners who fail to actually use the storage device to lock up their firearms (Vote No. 17).
31. March 2, 2004—Voted to outlaw the private sale of firearms at gun shows unless the buyer agrees to submit to an FBI background registration check. This legislative would have effectively eliminated gun shows because of stringent requirements placed on event sponsors (Vote No. 25).
32. July 28, 2005—Voted for an amendment to require all handgun purchasers to pay an implicit "gun tax" by requiring them to buy a trigger lock when they purchase their handgun, irrespective of need (Vote No. 207).
33. September 29, 2005—Voted against John Roberts for Supreme Court Justice. Roberts' record and testimony to the Senate show that he is strong advocate for Second Amendment rights. Had Reid's position prevailed on this vote, the 5-4 decisions in Heller and McDonald could have gone the other way (Vote No. 245).
34. January 18, 2007—Voted against an amendment to strike language in a bill that would infringe upon the free speech rights of groups like GOA by requiring them to monitor and report on communications with members, and could easily have led to government demands for organizational membership list (a.k.a. registration) (Vote No. 17).
35. January 31, 2006—Voted against Samuel Alito for Supreme Court Justice. Justice Alito's record and testimony to the Senate show that he is strong advocate for Second Amendment rights. Had Reid's position prevailed on this vote, the 5-4 decisions in Heller and McDonald could have gone the other way (Vote No. 2) .
36. February 2, 2009—Voted to confirm Eric Holder as Attorney General. Holder was an anti-Second Amendment official for the Clinton administration, and has called for a renewal of the Clinton gun ban (Vote No. 32).
37. March 19, 2009—Voted to massively expand the amount of land covered by the National Parks gun ban. As Majority Leader, Reid frustrated the efforts of pro-gun Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK) for more than a year to repeal the gun ban. Sen. Coburn's position ultimately prevailed after overcoming Reid's opposition later in 2009 (Vote No. 106).
38. June 25, 2009—Voted to confirm Harold Koh as Legal Advisor to the Department of State. GOA warned all Senators that Koh is a radical globalist pushing for worldwide gun control regulation, including the UN Treaty on Small Arms (Vote No. 213).
39. August 6, 2009—Voted to confirm Sonya Sotomayor as Supreme Court Justice. GOA warned all Senators that Judge Sotomayor's record on gun rights was one of hostility to the Second Amendment, which was born out in her dissent in the McDonald decision (Vote No. 262).
40. September 9, 2009—Voted to confirm Cass Sunstein as Administrator of Regulatory Affairs (Regulatory Czar). GOA notified all Senators that Cass Sunstein is a radical leftist who would like to ban hunting and give animals some of the same rights as humans in the courtroom (Vote No. 273).
41. November 19, 2009—Reid voted to confirm the highly controversial Richard Hamilton to the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals. Judge Hamilton has stated that the Founding Fathers intended judges to amend the Constitution through “evolving case law” (Vote No. 350).
42. December 24, 2009—Reid used his position as Majority Leader to pass the ObamaCare legislation. This bill will allow the BATFE and FBI to troll through the ObamaCare database for gun owners who would be disqualified because of their medical information (Vote No. 396).
43. March 25, 2010—Reid voted against an amendment offered by Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) to prevent Veterans from losing their Second Amendment rights without due process of law (Vote No. 94).
Got this from GOA.
barrelmaker_2002
Sharpshooter
Wrong. The NRA-PVF is a legally separate organization from the NRA. The NRA is a 501(c)4. The PVF is a PAC. The NRA Foundation is a 501(c)3...and so on and so forth.
Wrong.
Wrong.
Well, you might be paying for their webmaster....
Possibly true, but would the NRA risk losing its tax exempt status by doing it? Would they risk the loss of membership income if they got caught? Or run the risk of tens of millions in retroactive tax penalties? Do you really think they are that stupid?
Wrong.
Wrong.
I know several people that actually work at the NRA and multiple Board members. They made it very clear to me the following:
The PVF does not have access to the NRA member database, other than to pull names for mailings.
They use separate accounting systems.
Contributions to the PVF are tracked separately from your member dues and contributions to the NRA Foundation - in fact, if you asked the NRA to provide a total of all the money you have sent the various NRA orgs., they might be able to do it, but probably would not be willing to do so.
The two staffs are largely separate and on an operating level, they do not even talk to each other.
The simple truth is the sorts of unsubstantiated allegations you have made, if made against a person, would likely be grounds for a lawsuit. Seriously, you just accused them of making material misrepresentations of their finances, tax evasion and election law violations.
Finally, there are dozens of powerful people that oppose the entire agenda of the NRA. If they thought the PVF was using NRA general funds inappropriately, I suspect they would use their power (congressional supeonas, IRS audits, etc) to investigate. Given the number of enemies the NRA has, its political power on the Hill and its sheer size, it stands to reason that the NRA is one of the most heavily scrutinized organizations in the entire country.
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Prometheus
Master
Gun Owners of America
Jew for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership
Second Amendment Foundation
are the three finest national organizations. They also take immediate steps to stop unConstitutional gun grabs. From Katrina to the most recent NC "emergency", they file suit weeks ahead of anything the NRA ever winds up "getting around to".
I am asking a serious question here because I don't know. I am not trying to stir the pot.
Assuming that what you say is true that these three organizations file suites much quicker than the NRA. How many of them have gotten anywhere?
As I am sure one of our resident lawyers will comment on, the best lawsuits are not thrown together overnight. I would rather wait a few weeks to have all the ammunition and weight needed to win the suit than to file early and lose.
I could be very wrong on my assumptions here, but I simply have not heard of any suits that these organizations have won.
You've heard of the Heller (DC) and McDonald (Chicago) decisions? Alan Gura of the 2nd Amendment Foundation presented both of those cases. They have a real strategy to expand gun rights and are picking and choosing their lawsuits very carefully to get there. The SAF also sued Ray Nagin in New Orleans to have the guns returned to their owners after Katrina. While the NRA is good at influencing Congress, the SAF appears to be doing better in court cases to expand/defend gun rights.
barrelmaker_2002
Sharpshooter
Note that the Nagin lawsuit was pushed forward by the NRA and the SAF. The NRA was also heavily involved in the McDonald case and the SCOTUS ruling actually validated the position argued by the NRA's counsel, not the position argued by Mr. Gura.
The NRA was at best a reluctant player in the Heller case. They were not involved at the beginning for fear of losing and at first resisted having the case move forward at all*. In hindsight, this was the wrong move, but it all worked out in the end. Ultimately, the NRA provided considerable resources and support. Further, the NRA's amicus brief in the Heller case, written by Stephen Halbrook, received the support of VP Cheney and majorities of both houses of Congress.
In the interests of full disclosure, I am a life member of the NRA. I am not a member of GOA or the SAF, though I do intend to join the SAF when funds allow.
* This is a vast oversimplification. See The Heller Case: Gun Rights Affirmed (p. 74-79) for a summary
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Prometheus
Master
A stay, an emergency order, is a very simple document. A lawsuit 3 weeks after Katrina does little to help the grandmothers being body slammed by out of control JBT's.
Speed is of the essence in such cases.
As to the rest of your post, it's already been covered by other posters.
The nra is bent over while the other groups are out busting hump for the average gun owner.
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