Noveske failure to go into battery.

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  • mammynun

    Master
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    10   0   0
    Oct 30, 2009
    3,380
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    New Albany
    While it's a pistol right now :rolleyes:, it will eventually be an SBR so I hope this can be addressed in this forum. Additionally, the people here have a lot more experience with short barrel AR's than the general pistol group.

    Situation: Factory built Noveske "Hunter" 10" upper in 300BLK. Upper included Noveske BCG, and was test fired at the factory according to Noveske and showed signs of said firing. Thoroughly cleaned while waiting for lower to arrive. Lower is a stripped Noveske "blem" with a PSA LPK that includes a pistol receiver extension, recoil spring and an "H" stamped buffer. FWIW, it has KNS anti-rotational hammer/trigger pins. Lower passes function test. Four new OD 20rnd P-Mags to distinguish between 300BLK and 5.56. Ammo was Gunn 220gr subsonic and Gunn 130gr SOST, both with mixed headstamps (Gunn Ammo) from PSA.
    Symptoms: Loaded 1 subsonic 300BLK into OD P-Mag; weapon fired and ejected, bolt did not lock to rear (no surprise). Repeated with supersonic and a different OD P-mag; bolt locked to rear. Loaded 10 subsonic into 3rd new p-mag and zeroed at 50 yards by manually charging between rounds. All ten ejected, but the BCG didn't go far enough to the rear to strip a new round from the mag. Switched to supersonic in the 4th new p-mag to check the difference in POI and things went to poop. I released the BCG via the catch. Click no bang. Upon inspection, the bolt was not in battery. The gas rings were visible through the 2 holes on the side of the BC. Forward assist had no effect. Pulling charging handle to the rear revealed that the extractor had not grabbed the rim as the round was sill in the chamber. Dropped mag, released charging handle, bolt still failed to go into battery. Locked bolt to rear, pointed weapon up and round falls out. Figure it's a "bad" round, set it aside, insert mag, release bolt, same result. Load another p-mag with supersonic, same result. Load another mag with SUBsonic, same result. I took the rifle/pistol apart, nothing obvious... gas key not catching on gas tube, and I can easily push it into battery with my finger w/o a live round, significantly harder with a piece of spent brass. Wiped down and reassembled and the same issues happened though sometimes it would go into battery and fire. Tried a broken it 30rnd p-mag with about the same results. Tried a USGI from the mid-eighties and it worked the best, but was still about 50% failure. Throughout the course of the day, I could occasionally get it into battery with the forward assist, but usually not... even with "aggressive" whacks (I was getting a little perturbed by this point).
    Possible Remedies?: The entire BCG is VERY tight; when placed boltface down, the weight of the carrier does not cause the bolt to rotate inside the BC; Could this be a break-in issue? The extractor has the black O-ring and insert, and it's stiff. I have a spare bolt (DPMS) that I could try? Maybe just the extractor? The BCG from my well used RRA is is significantly easier to manipulate by hand than the Noveske BCG, but I didn't them. I also have a carbine buffer (non-"H") that I could try. I don't have any different ammo; all the subsonic is from the same lot (10218) as is the supersonic (10219).

    Help!:dunno:
     

    Stainer

    Master
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    33   1   0
    Feb 8, 2009
    1,908
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    God's Country
    I could be incorrect, but I was under the impression that the weight of the bcg alone should not be enough to push the bolt in. I was told if you set it on a table upside down and it falls without any pressure, then your rings are bad. I don't know a lot about this round so I'm not going to make any comments. My only question would be is this factory ammo or your loads?

    Edit: I see you said it was factory ammo. Sorry. I'm out of ideas.
     

    byggpoppa

    Sharpshooter
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    43   0   0
    Feb 22, 2010
    390
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    NW Indy
    Noveske's blackout barrels aren't designed to be reliable using subsonics unsuppressed... but the full power loads shouldn't be an issue.

    I honestly would pickup some different ammo and give it a whirl. I have had nothing but good luck with CMMG, Remington and AAC BLK ammunition.

    I would say it could be break in but if the forward assist won't put it into battery??

    I have bought new BCGs from Noveske and they are very tight. My 8" Noveske .300 was very snotty with Pmags (didn't go into battery) until I had about 60 full power rounds through it. Now it's flawless even with subs suppressed.
     

    mammynun

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    Oct 30, 2009
    3,380
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    New Albany
    I could be incorrect, but I was under the impression that the weight of the bcg alone should not be enough to push the bolt in. I was told if you set it on a table upside down and it falls without any pressure, then your rings are bad. I don't know a lot about this round so I'm not going to make any comments. My only question would be is this factory ammo or your loads?

    Edit: I see you said it was factory ammo. Sorry. I'm out of ideas.

    Yeah, I'm with you on the bolt/ring test. My RRA bolt does not "fall" when placed bolt carrier down, but the weight of the (non-FA) bolt carrier does cam the bolt when placed bolt face down. The Noveske doesn't move either way. I have no idea if this is any sort of valid test, more of an observation.
     

    ryknoll3

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    Sep 7, 2009
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    BCG not collapsing when placed bolt face down isn't really an issue. If you can't get the bolt to latch on the cartridge that's already in the chamber when it slams home, try taking the O-ring off.

    Is the gas key tight on the bolt carrier?
     

    Hop

    Grandmaster
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    16   0   0
    Jan 21, 2008
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    Indy
    I read somewhere that Gunn ammo was causing trouble. Over on M4C maybe??? That plus tight gas rings on the new bolt. Sorry, just guessing.
     

    mammynun

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    BCG not collapsing when placed bolt face down isn't really an issue. If you can't get the bolt to latch on the cartridge that's already in the chamber when it slams home, try taking the O-ring off.

    Is the gas key tight on the bolt carrier?

    Yes, the key is GTG. I'll try taking the O-ring off as the extractor is my main suspect at this point. Inspection of the brass from rounds that did fire shows that there's a pretty big mark on the base of the brass that matches the extractor. I'll try a couple of other extractors too, then maybe a spare bolt. I'm betting it's mostly a break in issue, but I'll be searching GUNN on M4C and googleing...
     

    darthfader

    Plinker
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    Jul 6, 2011
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    NWI
    did you check the buffer? some times the set pin on the buffer will work itself out and catch up on the spring in the buffer tube.
     

    mammynun

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    Oct 30, 2009
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    New Albany
    Issue is solved. I took the o-ring off the extractor spring and she was 100% for 100 round of supersonic and 60 subsonics. When it lossens up a little more I'll put it back on and see what effect it has... it's my understanding that the o-ring is mostly beneficial to FA guns.
    FWIW, it still doesn't cycle subsonics without a suppressor which doesn't surprise or concern me. I tried a standard carbine buffer as a test, but there was no change; it ejects the fired brass but doesn't go far enough back to strip a new round from the mag. It would be nice if it functioned 100%, but I plan on having a suppressor on it the majority of the time. Till then, I'll run supersonics.

    ETA: BTW, I used all four 20 rnd pmags, a new 30rnd pmag, and a 30 rnd USGI.
     
    Last edited:

    ryknoll3

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    I'd just skip the o-ring unless you were having extraction issues. I don't think it's too common to actually NEED one.
     

    ryknoll3

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    He said the bolt wasn't coming back far enough to strip a new round from the magazine. The 9mm buffer is heaviest of the buffers so that wouldn't help his situation and would probably exacerbate it.
     

    GunnAmmo

    Plinker
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    Jan 30, 2012
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    Issues solved . NOT GUNN AMMO after all !

    Gents, I was told there were some issues you may have had with your rifle.
    From reading some posts , it seems there were a few men implicating gunn ammo to be the culprit . I also see posts saying the problems with gunn ammo on other forums. To date, there has been zero issues with out 300 blackout sost and the sub sonic round. We are owned and operated by us veterans. We make factory new and also use new demilled brass, new powder, primers and bullets. Our round is one of the best in the industry. Our sost round is match grade at bulk pricing. Our sub sonic is outstanding. We have tested this line extensively using AAC , Remington bolt guns , Smith , Palmetto State and CMMG with ZERO malfunctions. Give us a shot at your business and I assure you we aim to please. We stand by our product 110 %. If you have issues, we will
    Correct it. We can't however correct what was not our fault to begin with.
    Semper Fi!
    Cliff Brown
    Partner
    Gunn Ammo / Dixie Ammo
    7066545614
     

    mammynun

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Oct 30, 2009
    3,380
    63
    New Albany
    Gents, I was told there were some issues you may have had with your rifle.
    From reading some posts , it seems there were a few men implicating gunn ammo to be the culprit . I also see posts saying the problems with gunn ammo on other forums. To date, there has been zero issues with out 300 blackout sost and the sub sonic round. We are owned and operated by us veterans. We make factory new and also use new demilled brass, new powder, primers and bullets. Our round is one of the best in the industry. Our sost round is match grade at bulk pricing. Our sub sonic is outstanding. We have tested this line extensively using AAC , Remington bolt guns , Smith , Palmetto State and CMMG with ZERO malfunctions. Give us a shot at your business and I assure you we aim to please. We stand by our product 110 %. If you have issues, we will
    Correct it. We can't however correct what was not our fault to begin with.
    Semper Fi!
    Cliff Brown
    Partner
    Gunn Ammo / Dixie Ammo
    7066545614

    Hi Cliff!

    Glad to see you here at INGO, but sorry that it was under this circumstance. So, first, let me state that I have had ZERO problems with your ammo, it had nothing to do with the issue that I had, and I will be buying more with no reservations (BTW, www.aimsurplus.com has your 125gr Speer back in stock). In my OP I didn't mean to imply that I thought Gunn had anything to do with the issue (and it didn't), I included the info as it would have been the first thing people wanted to know about... just as I included the info on the type(s) of mags. I will admit that I searched the "usual suspects" for info about other peoples experience with your ammo after one person said he thought he'd seen reports of issues with it. My google-fu is usually pretty strong, and I found nothing but good reveiws about your ammo on M4C, ARF and others, which mirrors my experience: "Great ammo at a Great price."

    I hope you'll hang around and participate here, there are quite a few of us with .300BLK's and manufacturers are always good to have on board. I, for example, would be interested in your thought on suppressors...

    Thank you for your service, and the great ammo!

    Mammynun
    Worn out 11B2P
    2/508 and 3/504PIR
    :ingo:
     
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