Nickel boron BCGs - hype, or worth it?

[saleen4971]

im a believer in coated BCG - the one i had was chrome, SUPER easy to clean. i cleaned my fathers AR which had an NiB BCG, and if it was easier or harder, i couldnt tell. big fan of both, but the NiB is much prettier

to the fokls who say "the AR platform didnt have coated BCG for X years with no issues" - that isnt the question here. will a non-coated BCG work? damn right it will. the coatings make it easier to clean, so why NOT spend a few extra bucks?

 

[M67]

to the fokls who say "the AR platform didnt have coated BCG for X years with no issues" - that isnt the question here. will a non-coated BCG work? damn right it will. the coatings make it easier to clean, so why NOT spend a few extra bucks?

Some of us don't clean our ARs after every shooting session. I let mine go for 1000s of rounds without cleaning. I use good lube, I just shoot it and let it be.

For me, the NP3 would be just for looks....until I shot it for a couple thousand rounds and it got covered in crud and didn't look silver anymore.

I have 1 NP3 BCG, and that's on my POF. Yes, it's slick, without lube and if you add a little it's super slick, but I don't prefer it over a standard phosphate coating

 

[tradertator]

I don't understand how you came up with that response.... Lots and Lots and Lots of upgrades have been done to the M16 in the last 50 years.
And like I said if coating the bolt was worthy, it would have been done long long ago. Like I said the two largest manufacters of M16's and M16 parts don't do it.. there is a reason and the reason is, Its not needed.

I understand what your saying, those rifles are built to a certain spec that's proven to work time and time again. However that doesn't mean that there isn't better products available and we as civilians are not limited to what we're issued by Uncle Sam. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big believer in a mil-spec run of the mill AR and know they can really perform. But there are higher performing products available if one wants.

 

[17 squirrel]

QUOTE=tradertator;5111234]I understand what your saying, those rifles are built to a certain spec that's proven to work time and time again. However that doesn't mean that there isn't better products available and we as civilians are not limited to what we're issued by Uncle Sam. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big believer in a mil-spec run of the mill AR and know they can really perform. But there are higher performing products available if one wants.[/QUOTE]

And both of those company's sell semi autos to the public in many different models, And currently none of them are available with a boron plated bolt carrier.
These coating are nothing new, The gen 1 boron coating has been around since the early 70s ( if I remember correctly )
And certainly if the coatings were a plus in the needing less lube or no lube at all it would be standard at least with the big boys like Colt and FN.
Its like things are invented now and just hyped and sold as better.
To each his own, If it works for you buy it. If not don't.

 

[warriorbob]

Just pointing out that colt and fn produce military weapons because they are the LOWEST bidder. They can't throw everything in a 430 dollar rifle.

 

[billt]

HYPE*** For more than 50 years Colt and FN have been building M16's and M16 parts and if it worked, They would have changed years and years ago.

They bid government contracts that go to the lowest bidder. If the government is willing to accept less, why should they give them more? Automobile manufacturers used fossil motor oil, and breaker point ignition for over 50 years as well. So I guess synthetic motor oil and computerized electronic ignition is also "hype" that isn't needed based on your consensus.

 

[Magneto]

I have an M&P Talo edition that has a nickel boron coated slide and barrel. I REALLY want a nickel boron bcg just because of my experience with the M&P. It was that good.

 

[17 squirrel]

They bid government contracts that go to the lowest bidder. If the government is willing to accept less, why should they give them more? Automobile manufacturers used fossil motor oil, and breaker point ignition for over 50 years as well. So I guess synthetic motor oil and computerized electronic ignition is also "hype" that isn't needed based on your consensus.

Some of you all missed my point completely. Colt & FN don't set the specs for any firearm our military orders, That's up to what what dept of the Government orders the firearm. And you guys might want to read a little about mill spec, Its a pretty high standard. Believe you me if any branch of the service wants changes to a weapon system the R &D gets done and if it works then it gets changed. Something as stupid and simple as coating a bolt carrier with a different material worked better that parking, It would have been done years ago. The M16 platform has had many changes and upgrades in the last 50 plus years and there will be more to come for sure. All upgrades and changes have cost money. Colt. And FN always make money.

 

[iChokePeople]

Some of you all missed my point completely. Colt & FN don't set the specs for any firearm our military orders, That's up to what what dept of the Government orders the firearm. And you guys might want to read a little about mill spec, Its a pretty high standard. Believe you me if any branch of the service wants changes to a weapon system the R &D gets done and if it works then it gets changed. Something as stupid and simple as coating a bolt carrier with a different material worked better that parking, It would have been done years ago. The M16 platform has had many changes and upgrades in the last 50 plus years and there will be more to come for sure. All upgrades and changes have cost money. Colt. And FN always make money.

So you're under the impression that the military selects the BEST tools, components, etc? You must have served in a different branch than I did. There's tons of great stuff out there that the us military doesn't select. They don't put Troy sights on standard issue rifles, but I think most of us would agree the troys are decent kit. Necessary? Nope. So I guess they're just hype, too. Ergo charging handles? Nope, they're just hype, too.

 

[Jackson]

In the industry in which I work, we have used a number of Stellite-coated process valves (ball valves and plug valves mosly). This Nickel Boron coating sounds an awful lot to me like a grade of Stellite. A couple thoughts based on that:

1. I've seen issues with the coating process, and it can be pretty finicky. In our industry it is commonly applied by a plasma arc spray metalizing type process. The parameters of the procedure must be closely followed. Metallurgy of the base metal and coating are important, as are the temperature of both during the process, and the distance and angle of the nozzle to the work piece. We've had some coating issues from the manufacturer that were procedure-related.

Does anyone know if this sounds like the coating process used for BCGs? If so, I'd want some assurances that the manufacturer was following their procedure very closely and had a history of great results.

2. Many of these Stellite type alloys are very, very hard. In valves, I've seen instances of valve balls galling and premautrely wearing valve seats. The two were very closely related stellite alloys, or even the same alloy that had slightly different hardness either due to application parameters or slight differences in material. Has anyone noticed any excessive wear on carbon steel or aluminum interface parts in the upper receiver or at the barrel due to contact with NiB coated parts under heat and pressure? Is this an issue?

 

[Fargo]

So you're under the impression that the military selects the BEST tools, components, etc? You must have served in a different branch than I did. There's tons of great stuff out there that the us military doesn't select. They don't put Troy sights on standard issue rifles, but I think most of us would agree the troys are decent kit. Necessary? Nope. So I guess they're just hype, too. Ergo charging handles? Nope, they're just hype, too.

This.

Anyone arguing that the cumbersome bureaucratic nightmare of conflicted interests that is the .mil acquisition process somehow determines the best, is IMO sadly far separated from reality.

 

[aaron580]

I thought about a NIB BCG for my last build…I went with a spikes and have a MI as well…Do not know what the difference would be really.

 

[LEaSH]

When the NiB are the same price as conventional BCG, I really don't have a problem with trying them. Even when a coated part is 20% more than a conventional part, I'll give it a go.

Is it worth it? I my experience, sure. In others' experience, it varies on what they do with their money.

What's wrong with this?: AIM AR/M16 .223/5.56 NiB 9310 MPI BDG Bolt Carrier Group

 

[17 squirrel]

So you're under the impression that the military selects the BEST tools, components, etc? You must have served in a different branch than I did. There's tons of great stuff out there that the us military doesn't select. They don't put Troy sights on standard issue rifles, but I think most of us would agree the troys are decent kit. Necessary? Nope. So I guess they're just hype, too. Ergo charging handles? Nope, they're just hype, too.

You might want to reread my post again, nowhere did I say Uncle Sam buys the BEST equipment , But your argument does sound better when you add that. Uncle Sam develops equipment that works well for what it was designed to do. Did I serve ? Yes I did. I was a Marine 76 to 87. So that means I used a M16 A1 and a A2 I can't tell you why Troy sights are not used by our armed services. Maybe they did not make the grade, Maybe to much money, maybe they did not enter into the running for a contract, Who knows. Just because you think Uncle Sam should use a certain piece of equipment does not mean **** in the real world. Ergo Handles ???? You gotta be kidding right ???? You musta been in the Air Force.
I can honestly say the equipment I was issued to me did everything it was supposed to do. Done here, Good Night.

 

[billt]

This.

Anyone arguing that the cumbersome bureaucratic nightmare of conflicted interests that is the .mil acquisition process somehow determines the best, is IMO sadly far separated from reality.

BINGO.

 

[billt]

I can honestly say the equipment I was issued to me did everything it was supposed to do.

So does a MRE. Do you live on those?

 

[JTScribe]

When the NiB are the same price as conventional BCG, I really don't have a problem with trying them. Even when a coated part is 20% more than a conventional part, I'll give it a go.

Is it worth it? I my experience, sure. In others' experience, it varies on what they do with their money.

What's wrong with this?: AIM AR/M16 .223/5.56 NiB 9310 MPI BDG Bolt Carrier Group

Huh. What's the diff between that and this other than $30?

 

[Jackson]

Just as we should expect from an INGO thread... Almost no discusssion on the technical/metallurgical aspects of the coating or the application process, and minimal experiences with its use. We make up for it with plenty of discussion about military issue equipment circa 1986. That should suffice to answer the OP's question. :-)

 

[iChokePeople]

Just as we should expect from an INGO thread... Almost no discusssion on the technical/metallurgical aspects of the coating or the application process, and minimal experiences with its use. We make up for it with plenty of discussion about military issue equipment circa 1986. That should suffice to answer the OP's question. :-)

All true, and par for this particular hole, but IMHO you can almost never answer the question of whether something is "worth it" for anyone but yourself.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Just as we should expect from an INGO thread... Almost no discusssion on the technical/metallurgical aspects of the coating or the application process, and minimal experiences with its use. We make up for it with plenty of discussion about military issue equipment circa 1986. That should suffice to answer the OP's question. :-)

Well, your comparison to Stellite isn't accurate in terms of Nickle Boron.

Stellite is a material, not a coating or surface treatment, specifically designed for resistance to wear and corrosion, and offers little in terms of improving lubricity and metal/metal contact outside of wear resistance. Would think the MAIN issue with using this material in ARs would be wear on other parts, such as the barrel extension lugs, plus cost of machining. S-7, 9310, C158 all work just fine for bolt heads, 8620 for carriers is fine as well. A company I worked for momentarily considered Stellite for a product (unfortunately, not at liberty to divulge it's purpose) and found it's cost to be prohibitive for small units and it's benefits not worth the price compared to other materials. That being said, if I wanted it for an MG barrel or lugs on some crazy high end oil equipment/ball bearings, you got it!

Nickel Boron is a surface treatment that adds lubricity by screwing with the surface topography of the material and is applied aftermarket, offering little to no hardening properties.

Apples to oranges, but not too far off cam.