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[Mgderf]

Minimum wage is not the problem.
Minimum wage was FAR below a comfortable living when I was growing up. Still, these were often the only jobs available to me at the time.

The solution was not to demand a rise in the minimum wage, and it was not to live on the government dole.

Many, MANY times in my life I've worked as many as 3 jobs at a time. I worked as much as 90-100 hours per week, sometimes just to keep the bills current.

I no longer need to work 3 jobs to make ends meet, but I remember it like it was yesterday.

Minimum wage is not the answer. Hard work and perseverance is what's needed, and sorely lacking in the welfare class today. It is still possible in America (for now) to "pull oneself up by one's bootstraps".

Ever hear the old adage,

"Where there's a will, there's a way"?

 

[Streak]

Minimum wage is not the problem.
Minimum wage was FAR below a comfortable living when I was growing up. Still, these were often the only jobs available to me at the time.

The solution was not to demand a rise in the minimum wage, and it was not to live on the government dole.

Many, MANY times in my life I've worked as many as 3 jobs at a time. I worked as much as 90-100 hours per week, sometimes just to keep the bills current.

I no longer need to work 3 jobs to make ends meet, but I remember it like it was yesterday.

Minimum wage is not the answer. Hard work and perseverance is what's needed, and sorely lacking in the welfare class today. It is still possible in America (for now) to "pull oneself up by one's bootstraps".

Ever hear the old adage,

"Where there's a will, there's a way"?

I don't know of many people who can even GET 3 jobs, let alone 3 jobs whose bosses will let you chose a schedule so they all fit and don't overlap. Times have changed...people aren't seen as valuable resources and unless you have a degree your job prospects are going to be employers who don't really care about what you want for a job schedule.

 

[Mgderf]

Necessity is the mother of invention.

Idol hands are the devils' workshop.

 

[Streak]

Necessity is the mother of invention.

Idol hands are the devils' workshop.

I guess I don't get what you're getting at...

 

[hookedonjeep]

I cannot speak for anyone other than myself on this issue... I was raised, in a two parent household ( until age 9 ), and taught by both my father and my mother about hard work. I was taught that if you wanted to get ahead in life, you had to get up in the morning and "pull up your bootstraps", and get your butt to work. I was taught that when you WORK for something, you tend to appreciate it more than some lazy whine-arse who had it handed to him. I grew up in a family of 5 kids in the seventies. We were so poor that my father held three jobs ( one full time, and two part time ), and my mother worked two ( one full and one part ) just to make ends meet. We MAY have qualified for welfare of some kind, but we had PRIDE that did not allow us to seek it. I was instilled with that very work ethic, and have yet to suckle from the governments teet. I understand that SOME folks fall down from time to time, and could use a hand to get back on their feet; for a SHORT while. What chaps my arse is lazy folks that claim they are somehow "under privileged" and need to have careers on the public dole. They grow up with the EXACT same opportunities as every other person in this country. In fact, if they had any ambition at all to actually DO something with their lives - other than sit around all day, selling drugs, getting high, killing one another over the most rediculous things; they would have a much better quality of life. I for one am tired of helping those that refuse to help themselves to something other than the money I earned!

 

[Streak]

I cannot speak for anyone other than myself on this issue... I was raised, in a two parent household ( until age 9 ), and taught by both my father and my mother about hard work. I was taught that if you wanted to get ahead in life, you had to get up in the morning and "pull up your bootstraps", and get your butt to work. I was taught that when you WORK for something, you tend to appreciate it more than some lazy whine-arse who had it handed to him. I grew up in a family of 5 kids in the seventies. We were so poor that my father held three jobs ( one full time, and two part time ), and my mother worked two ( one full and one part ) just to make ends meet. We MAY have qualified for welfare of some kind, but we had PRIDE that did not allow us to seek it. I was instilled with that very work ethic, and have yet to suckle from the governments teet. I understand that SOME folks fall down from time to time, and could use a hand to get back on their feet; for a SHORT while. What chaps my arse is lazy folks that claim they are somehow "under privileged" and need to have careers on the public dole. They grow up with the EXACT same opportunities as every other person in this country. In fact, if they had any ambition at all to actually DO something with their lives - other than sit around all day, selling drugs, getting high, killing one another over the most rediculous things; they would have a much better quality of life. I for one am tired of helping those that refuse to help themselves to something other than the money I earned!

Not everyone has the same exact opportunities everyone else has. I had the grades and the brains to get into Harvard...I just didn't have the capital. The world has changed from the 70s, I think you've not seen much of it in your later years.

 

[SaintsNSinners]

Not everyone has the same exact opportunities everyone else has. I had the grades and the brains to get into Harvard...I just didn't have the capital. The world has changed from the 70s, I think you've not seen much of it in your later years.

I do hear that hippie liberals like to call University of Phoenix the Harvard of online schools. Thats pretty sad you couldnt afford to be a phoenix

 

[MisterChester]

That's really it though. For most people, wages have basically flatlined (not counting the bare increases for inflation) over the last 20 years. Meanwhile CEO and upper executive pay has skyrocketed. Today's people are doing more work for less money than people were 30-50+ years ago.

Yup. The average American CEO makes over 300 times the average wage if his workers. I'm not talking about the janitor's salary, I'm talking average salary across the entire company. In many cases what they make in an hour takes most workers a month to earn.

 

[hookedonjeep]

Not everyone has the same exact opportunities everyone else has. I had the grades and the brains to get into Harvard...I just didn't have the capital. The world has changed from the 70s, I think you've not seen much of it in your later years.

While I certainly appreciate your input, Streak; I have seen more of the world than you presume to know. I have seen the super-rich ( your would-be classmates from Harvard), and I have seen the super poor, and all the fine folks in between. I know for a fact that rich people are rich because they get real good at spending other peoples money before their own. I know that those born with silver spoons in their mouths rarely know what true hunger is. But, I also have seen hard work and pride take plenty of people from the ghetto to a good life. I have seen people from impoverished nations rise above their status, and carry them and those around them out of their meager settings. The common theme is always the true desire - the willingness to work hard and have a good work ethic to achieve their goals - not rely on the charity of others or sucking from the governments tit for existence.

It almost sounds as though you are bitter about not making it into Harvard. I too had the grades and the brains to do whatever I wanted, but lacked two things: Money, and Decisiveness. You see, had I been able to decide for sure what path I wanted to follow professionally, I could have worked the money part out. I qualified for all kinds of academic scholarships, and would have had to work as well to make it happen; but it COULD have been done. But, since I could not decide, I felt it would be a huge waste of my time and resources to go to college. I went with a different career path, and do quite well for myself now. I don't need a piece of paper ( in some cases a REALLY EXPENSIVE piece of paper ) to validate my life, or serve as some sort of proof that I am indeed an intelligent, conscious being.

As as for everyone not having the same opportunities, I disagree. While they may not be identical, all opportunities are a product of an individual's choices. If you choose to go to school, work hard, and pursue a fruitful and productive life; generally you will have better opportunities throughout your life. If, on the other hand, you go the other way - you choose to NOT go to school, NOT to work hard, NOT to be a productive member of society; then no - you will not be afforded the same opportunities as someone who actually has PRIDE in everything they do. The key difference is the collection of choices that lead to opportunities.

I have no time or compassion left for those that chose NOT to help themselves out of poverty - those that refuse to work for a living, those that make a career of sucking off the teet of welfare. I choose instead to focus my time and energy into helping those that are willing to WORK for a better life...

 

[Roscoe38]

Really? I'm middle class, I've never met a "government leech" who could afford what I can afford. Most of them seem to live in trailers or in ****ty neighborhoods. They eat Doritos, do drugs, and wear Walmart brand clothing. I have custom tailored suits for work, eat well, just built a $1K+ desktop, am paying my student loans, have an apartment, and am saving up for a wedding.

Maybe you should actually go out an meet some of these people who you talk about.

I used to have all those thing you mention, then I got married. My priorities went by the wayside. You are so damned smug, you need to get an education in life.

 

[jbombelli]

Not everyone has the same exact opportunities everyone else has. I had the grades and the brains to get into Harvard...I just didn't have the capital. The world has changed from the 70s, I think you've not seen much of it in your later years.

Bull****.

Everyone has the same opportunities. What they make of them is up to them.

You don't have to go to Harvard to make a good living. If you can't find a job you like, MAKE YOUR OWN job.

You know what you sound like? You sound like a lot of people I've seen over the years.

In a job interview their first question is not "is overtime available", it's "how much time off will I get". They show up to work 5 minutes late and leave 5 minutes early. They take an extra 5 minutes at lunch, and multiple breaks during the day. When they're actually supposed to be working they're surfing the web, paying their bills, chatting with others, doing all kinds of things that aren't related to their actual jobs. When the owner of the company they work for buys a new Ferrari they sit around and *****. They say it's not fair that he bought another $250,000 car while they're driving a 15 year old POS with rusty fenders and a dented door. They say he wouldn't even HAVE his company if not for them. But here's what they all miss: It took the boss several years of building his business and risking everything before he was even in a position to need someone to help him. He almost lost his home and his family more than once because he was working 100 hours per week and there were months in which he didn't make ANY money AT ALL. He would hit the road at 5 am and not get home until 10 pm three or four days later. He missed his kids growing up. He drove himself to be successful, while these other guys who now work for him? Their biggest motivation is to pay the rent on their apartment and have a bag of weed for the weekend, and "gimme my free ****." Then they sit around and complain, just like you, that they didn't have the same opportunity. They talk about how smart they are but didn't have the money they needed to go to an ivy league school, when the business owner they're working for doesn't even have a college degree. The real difference? That business owner has the drive, discipline and motivation to make it happen.

THEY DID have the same opportunity - they just chose not to take any risks themselves. They chose to work for someone else.

You want the American Dream? Make it for yourself. Stop asking that it be handed to you, and stop voting for it.

 

[drop45]

I have several income properties so I don't think it would even be possible to collect a dime from the government until I actually reach retirement age, I said what I did "tongue in cheek" so to speak. I'm just so pissed off that we spent countless of millions probably billions during the 'cold war' to fight off the spread of communism and here we are seemingly adopting it our selves. Our government as a whole is a JOKE.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Bull****.

Everyone has the same opportunities. What they make of them is up to them.

You don't have to go to Harvard to make a good living. If you can't find a job you like, MAKE YOUR OWN job.

You know what you sound like? You sound like a lot of people I've seen over the years.

In a job interview their first question is not "is overtime available", it's "how much time off will I get". They show up to work 5 minutes late and leave 5 minutes early. They take an extra 5 minutes at lunch, and multiple breaks during the day. When they're actually supposed to be working they're surfing the web, paying their bills, chatting with others, doing all kinds of things that aren't related to their actual jobs. When the owner of the company they work for buys a new Ferrari they sit around and *****. They say it's not fair that he bought another $250,000 car while they're driving a 15 year old POS with rusty fenders and a dented door. They say he wouldn't even HAVE his company if not for them. But here's what they all miss: It took the boss several years of building his business and risking everything before he was even in a position to need someone to help him. He almost lost his home and his family more than once because he was working 100 hours per week and there were months in which he didn't make ANY money AT ALL. He would hit the road at 5 am and not get home until 10 pm three or four days later. He missed his kids growing up. He drove himself to be successful, while these other guys who now work for him? Their biggest motivation is to pay the rent on their apartment and have a bag of weed for the weekend, and "gimme my free ****." Then they sit around and complain, just like you, that they didn't have the same opportunity. They talk about how smart they are but didn't have the money they needed to go to an ivy league school, when the business owner they're working for doesn't even have a college degree. The real difference? That business owner has the drive, discipline and motivation to make it happen.

THEY DID have the same opportunity - they just chose not to take any risks themselves. They chose to work for someone else.

You want the American Dream? Make it for yourself. Stop asking that it be handed to you, and stop voting for it.

Nailed it!

 

[jamil]

Bull****.

Everyone has the same opportunities. What they make of them is up to them.

You don't have to go to Harvard to make a good living. If you can't find a job you like, MAKE YOUR OWN job.

You know what you sound like? You sound like a lot of people I've seen over the years.

In a job interview their first question is not "is overtime available", it's "how much time off will I get". They show up to work 5 minutes late and leave 5 minutes early. They take an extra 5 minutes at lunch, and multiple breaks during the day. When they're actually supposed to be working they're surfing the web, paying their bills, chatting with others, doing all kinds of things that aren't related to their actual jobs. When the owner of the company they work for buys a new Ferrari they sit around and *****. They say it's not fair that he bought another $250,000 car while they're driving a 15 year old POS with rusty fenders and a dented door. They say he wouldn't even HAVE his company if not for them. But here's what they all miss: It took the boss several years of building his business and risking everything before he was even in a position to need someone to help him. He almost lost his home and his family more than once because he was working 100 hours per week and there were months in which he didn't make ANY money AT ALL. He would hit the road at 5 am and not get home until 10 pm three or four days later. He missed his kids growing up. He drove himself to be successful, while these other guys who now work for him? Their biggest motivation is to pay the rent on their apartment and have a bag of weed for the weekend, and "gimme my free ****." Then they sit around and complain, just like you, that they didn't have the same opportunity. They talk about how smart they are but didn't have the money they needed to go to an ivy league school, when the business owner they're working for doesn't even have a college degree. The real difference? That business owner has the drive, discipline and motivation to make it happen.

THEY DID have the same opportunity - they just chose not to take any risks themselves. They chose to work for someone else.

You want the American Dream? Make it for yourself. Stop asking that it be handed to you, and stop voting for it.

Now you should know better. He didn't build that. Someone else made that happen. Whateverthehell that means.

 

[printcraft]

Not everyone has the same exact opportunities everyone else has. I had the grades and the brains to get into Harvard...I just didn't have the capital. The world has changed from the 70s, I think you've not seen much of it in your later years.

 

[gunman41mag]

I have several income properties so I don't think it would even be possible to collect a dime from the government until I actually reach retirement age, I said what I did "tongue in cheek" so to speak. I'm just so pissed off that we spent countless of millions probably billions during the 'cold war' to fight off the spread of communism and here we are seemingly adopting it our selves. Our government as a whole is a JOKE.

Sell your income property & buy guns & ammo, then you will qualified for hand out

 

[CTS]

A lot of times people get more money off the government's dime than if they actually worked. Is this a wage or a welfare problem?

I know a guy. His family is on foodstamps, he and his wife are going to college, and they're on medicaid. They get about $700 a month in foodstamps, medicaid pays for 100% of everything except he and his wife are charged $3 for prescriptions. He makes some side income doing odd jobs probably around $1000 a month and they're maxing out their student loans to cover their living expenses. If he got a full time job making about $30,000 a year, that would work out to about $2,000 a month take home, he and his wife would lose a large chunk of their pell grant, their foodstamps would drop to about $50 a month, medicaid would go away for the family and a high deductible plan through his employer would probably take around $700 a month out of his $2,000 take home. His wife isn't qualified for a job that pays enough to make up for the cost of daycare for the kids. Unless he can land a much higher paying job, I can't really argue with him that taking one before he graduates makes absolutely zero sense. At least he's trying to get a degree and better himself, but it's crazy hard to get a job that you can actually live off of anymore. Wages compared to the cost of living are at an all time low.

 

[04DarkShadowGT]

I know a guy. His family is on foodstamps, he and his wife are going to college, and they're on medicaid. They get about $700 a month in foodstamps, medicaid pays for 100% of everything except he and his wife are charged $3 for prescriptions. He makes some side income doing odd jobs probably around $1000 a month and they're maxing out their student loans to cover their living expenses. If he got a full time job making about $30,000 a year, that would work out to about $2,000 a month take home, he and his wife would lose a large chunk of their pell grant, their foodstamps would drop to about $50 a month, medicaid would go away for the family and a high deductible plan through his employer would probably take around $700 a month out of his $2,000 take home. His wife isn't qualified for a job that pays enough to make up for the cost of daycare for the kids. Unless he can land a much higher paying job, I can't really argue with him that taking one before he graduates makes absolutely zero sense. At least he's trying to get a degree and better himself, but it's crazy hard to get a job that you can actually live off of anymore. Wages compared to the cost of living are at an all time low.

Sorry, that's a horse poop excuse. My dad worked a full time job and went to school full time all while having a family.

If your friend really wanted to get by without assistance he could, he just thinks its easier to do it without working a full time job.

Who says they both have to go to school at the same time? He is more than capable of working a full time job and going to school in the evenings. She can watch the kids until he is done with school, then she can go to night school while he watches the kids.

 

[Lucas156]

That's a copout. You can't expect BOTH parents to work and someone else to raise their kids at daycare just because they're too PROUD to get welfare. That's the problem these days. Yeah your dad worked and went to school but I bet your mom stayed home with the kids. These days both parents work so who the hell is raising the children. Both parents have to work to get by these days or they are just too greedy to pass up two incomes.

 

[jamil]

That's a copout. You can't expect BOTH parents to work and someone else to raise their kids at daycare just because they're too PROUD to get welfare. That's the problem these days. Yeah your dad worked and went to school but I bet your mom stayed home with the kids. These days both parents work so who the hell is raising the children. Both parents have to work to get by these days or they are just too greedy to pass up two incomes.

I think you are proving the point.