Need some help debating an anti-gunner

[KLB]

He doesn't want to listen to anyone, only to show how superior he is to everyone with his mighty intellect.

 

[VikingWarlord]

At the risk of appearing vain by quoting myself, " I did not try to persuade him that he was wrong, since I consider him to basically be unpersuadable. I was writing to the readership to give them reason to understand how wrong he is in his article."

Perhaps I should have pointed out that articles like his get a lot of readers who are on the fence on the issues of guns. If you want his to be the only voice they read on the subject, so be it.

I personally would like them to have an alternate, more honest voice.

I know I posted it in another thread, but this approach reminds me of this scene from Thank You For Smoking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW87GRmunMY

It really does tend to be true.

That said, he isn't completely wrong in his perspective. There are a LOT of people who talk a whole lot of macho **** ("bravado", as he put it, isn't far off) and a lot more people who firmly believe that a gun is a magic death stick that will destroy all bad guys within a half mile radius. I support carrying however you want, but I also wish people would take the time to train and understand their weapons before making that decision.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

Yes, I've done that on other subjects, on other boards, stated flat out that I didn't have any expectation of convincing the "opponent", just be there looking reasonable and presenting factual and rational arguments for any drive-bys that were interested.

 

[IndianaGTI]

I love that guy's reasoning. In one of his comments, he suggests that you should not carry a gun because they may have a bigger gun or you may be taken out at a distance from a rifle. DO NOT BE PREPARED BECAUSE THEY MAY BE MORE PREPARED. That is just sound reasoning.

 

[GBuck]

Me from the site,

So... Since you COULD be ambushed or "taken out by a rifle at long distance" (who is the paranoid one) you shouldn't carry a weapon? I don't know any carriers that believe that they are invincible because they carry. If anything, most of the carriers I know are more aware that they ARE NOT invincible than those that don't carry.

Having a gun in no way makes you invincible, period. What it does do is allow you to be MORE PREPARED for things that you CAN have an impact on. Am I more protected against a long range rifle shot? Hell no. Am I more prepared against the mugger that comes up to me in the streets or parking lots of down town? Yes.

Saying that one shouldn't carry or doesn't need to carry because it does not make them invincible is like saying you shouldn't claim the $200,000 prize in the lottery because you didn't win the jackpot.

 

[Citizen711]

I knew better, but wasted my time both reading the post and commenting. Ten minutes of my life I'll never get back.

 

[jayhawk]

Wouldn't the premise of this article be an example of begging the question?

Is there such a myth that concealed carry "guarantees" safety?

 

[GBuck]

It doesn't matter.. I posted a comment 15 minutes ago and it has already been deleted. He's just afraid of a little thing called LOGIC that's being dropped on him.

 

[edporch]

Here's a screed against CCW holders, in that we are all going to kill everyone, including ourselves since having a gun is too dangerous and really doesn't help anyway.

I posted several times over the past few days with point by point answers and I guess the author got tired of being made to look foolish (I was polite) since he took down all my posts.

Could you all visit him and give reason to the readers why he is wrong. Perhaps if enough do so he will keep some on. I did not try to persuade him that he was wrong, since I consider him to basically be unpersuadable. I was writing to the readership to give them reason to understand how wrong he is in his article.

Debunking the Myth that Safety is Guaranteed when Carrying a Firearm or Concealed Weapon

Arguing with the author of this article is a waste of time because they have an agenda, and aren't really open to an honest debate.

The author is either an imbecile or is intellectually dishonest to start with a basic premise that gun owners believe carrying a gun "...guarantees them safety from danger and violence".

A gun is nothing more than a tool, not unlike a spare tire, a fire extinguishers, a first aid kit, etc.

Just like a spare tire won't guarantee me to not have a flat, or a fire extinguisher guarantees my house won't burn down, or a first aid kit guarantees me I won't get hurt, a gun WON'T guarantee I'll be safe from "danger and violence" either.

 

[Citizen711]

It occurs to me that we should all just ignore him. Racking up page hits can only be a good thing for him.

 

[nucone]

At the risk of appearing vain by quoting myself, " I did not try to persuade him that he was wrong, since I consider him to basically be unpersuadable. I was writing to the readership to give them reason to understand how wrong he is in his article."

Perhaps I should have pointed out that articles like his get a lot of readers who are on the fence on the issues of guns. If you want his to be the only voice they read on the subject, so be it.

I personally would like them to have an alternate, more honest voice.

Based on others subsequent posts, I rest my case. The author of the article clearly intended for it to be a lecture, not a debate. His actions on deleting your posts provides clear evidence of that. He doesn't want to listen or even give those with a dissenting opinion a voice at all.

 

[VikingWarlord]

It doesn't matter.. I posted a comment 15 minutes ago and it has already been deleted. He's just afraid of a little thing called LOGIC that's being dropped on him.

It isn't that he's afraid of logic. It's that he doesn't care what anyone else has to say. He's right, he knows it, that's the end of it.

Both sides of the debate have those types. Going for the ones in the middle is the best strategy.

 

[INyooper]

It isn't that he's afraid of logic. It's that he doesn't care what anyone else has to say. He's right, he knows it, that's the end of it.

...not unlike Glock owners, I'm sure.

FWIW, I chimed in on his feedback page ...though, it must have gotten stuck in one of those FBI servers that went off line today, 'cuz it's not there anymore.

 

[hrearden]

Wouldn't the premise of this article be an example of begging the question?

Is there such a myth that concealed carry "guarantees" safety?

If you look at some of the news programs on TV, I would say there is. The trouble is, its a myth made up to perpetuate the myth that gun owners constantly tout it, making them ignorant, short-sighted, and dangerous. A while ago, I saw a Dateline program that was clearly skewed to show the ineffectiveness of carrying a weapon and a 60 minutes program (I think, it might have been a Dateline Program as well) that tryed to make gun shows look like military arms bazaars. Every once in a while, Ill catch an article here or there in one paper or another, or on one website or another, that does this. Nobody will come right out and write an article saying "I believe gun ownership should not be allowed". However, all the articles I am talking about are written to make you believe that firearm ownership in large numbers is a ticking time bomb. Also, the articles are inevitably connected with some "study" or some "experiment" or "survey". Either way, its all garbage. The guy in question here appears to be one of the poor wretched products of the Clinton years.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Can you buy automatic firearms in Ohio gun stores? Never knew that. Anyway, I avoid folks like this and would not even try to have a discourse with them.

And they have drive through liquor stores! What a state!

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I love that guy's reasoning. In one of his comments, he suggests that you should not carry a gun because they may have a bigger gun or you may be taken out at a distance from a rifle. DO NOT BE PREPARED BECAUSE THEY MAY BE MORE PREPARED. That is just sound reasoning.

That's why I duct tape two layers of body armor together... According to Gecko45, it will stop a .308!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Where did this "guarantee" stuff come from?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Where did this "guarantee" stuff come from?

Perhaps from Spanish garante or French garant, of Germanic origin; compare warrant.