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My first (and last?) .22 bolt gun.
- Thread starter Hohn
- Start date
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grunt soldier
Master
Double post
What range were those groups shot at? Whatever it is, they are damn good.
Anyone know the cheapest place to get cz455 mags??
But to also keep on topic here are some pics of mine and some groups it shoots. It loves aguila standards and sk.
grunt soldier
Master
a little over 35 yards. It's a far as I can get in the back yard unfortunately. I found that with norma match and some higher end Eley offerings they tighten up a little more but not worth the added monies for those ammo's.
Very Nice VPT. My best bud just went whole hawg on one-- bought the VPT, plus a Lilja barrel, a bipod, XTR rings, SWFA 3-15 FFP, I can't wait to see how his shoots.
Did you have any problems with the safety on yours like many others have reported for the VPT? My bud had problems, he had to buy a different bolt handle off fleabay to get the safety to work. Allegedly it's related to the inletting of the Manners not being ideal for the 455 bolt handle. Bolt won't close all the way.
Anyway, I have an update on MY 455. I've been fiddling with new trigger springs. I read about the famous Fastenal 160A (through 162A) or the Ace Hardware 144 or whatever it is. The RFC folks have all the data on that forum.
Anyway, I went to the local Fastenal and they didn't have the 160A. But what they did have (the 153c?) looked like it might work, it was just a good bit longer even though it was obviously MUCH lighter wire. I liked the idea of having the longer spring as the extra compression might give me some good stuff.
I installed the Fastenal spring and the trigger weight dropped about in half and was still GTG go safety and on other hassles like sear engagement and creep. Because it's a good deal longer than the OEM spring, I could cut it down to make it lighter and STILL have it be longer than the OEM spring. So I cut down the spring.
Now I have a trigger that's right around a pound with NO discernible downsides. No creep. No stacking. No bolt-falling-out-back-of-gun because of insufficient sear engagement. No safety hassles (will not AD when bumped or taken off safety). This was a 3-pack of springs for $6. I can't see how even the very affordable YoDave kit is worth it, as a rimfire trigger can't really be much better than this.
They key is that the spring is both LONGER and lighter. Not just lighter. A short spring has a higher rate for a given wire. That means it is much more progressive-- it gains a lot more load with compression, but also releases a lot more load as it approaches its static (free) length.
That causes some light springs to have little to no sear-preload. This is the source of the bolt-falling-out problem and other annoyances. It can also make the rifle both sloppy and dangerous.
Not the case here. I can't wait to shoot it again!
Juice Stain
Did you have any problems with the safety on yours like many others have reported for the VPT? My bud had problems, he had to buy a different bolt handle off fleabay to get the safety to work. Allegedly it's related to the inletting of the Manners not being ideal for the 455 bolt handle. Bolt won't close all the way.
Anyway, I have an update on MY 455. I've been fiddling with new trigger springs. I read about the famous Fastenal 160A (through 162A) or the Ace Hardware 144 or whatever it is. The RFC folks have all the data on that forum.
Anyway, I went to the local Fastenal and they didn't have the 160A. But what they did have (the 153c?) looked like it might work, it was just a good bit longer even though it was obviously MUCH lighter wire. I liked the idea of having the longer spring as the extra compression might give me some good stuff.
I installed the Fastenal spring and the trigger weight dropped about in half and was still GTG go safety and on other hassles like sear engagement and creep. Because it's a good deal longer than the OEM spring, I could cut it down to make it lighter and STILL have it be longer than the OEM spring. So I cut down the spring.
Now I have a trigger that's right around a pound with NO discernible downsides. No creep. No stacking. No bolt-falling-out-back-of-gun because of insufficient sear engagement. No safety hassles (will not AD when bumped or taken off safety). This was a 3-pack of springs for $6. I can't see how even the very affordable YoDave kit is worth it, as a rimfire trigger can't really be much better than this.
They key is that the spring is both LONGER and lighter. Not just lighter. A short spring has a higher rate for a given wire. That means it is much more progressive-- it gains a lot more load with compression, but also releases a lot more load as it approaches its static (free) length.
That causes some light springs to have little to no sear-preload. This is the source of the bolt-falling-out problem and other annoyances. It can also make the rifle both sloppy and dangerous.
Not the case here. I can't wait to shoot it again!
Juice Stain
grunt soldier
Master
I have a rifle basix trigger in mine and do have issues every now and then the bolt will slide out. I could adjust it but it's so rare I don't worry about it as my trigger is perfect. The safety I can't say much about as I don't use it.
I had a lilja barrel lined up for mine but saw no reason for it do to how well this shoots. I pieced mine together as I had money available. And I'm not good enough to squeeze much more accuracy out of it. So the super match ammo and better barrel don't interest me too much.
I have a 22mag and 17hmr swap system all done up I might get a lilja for it in 22lr one day just to see if there is any real difference
I had a lilja barrel lined up for mine but saw no reason for it do to how well this shoots. I pieced mine together as I had money available. And I'm not good enough to squeeze much more accuracy out of it. So the super match ammo and better barrel don't interest me too much.
I have a 22mag and 17hmr swap system all done up I might get a lilja for it in 22lr one day just to see if there is any real difference
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You are wise to realize that the rifle pretty easily becomes the least factor holding you back. Usually it's the shooter and the ammo that are the limiting factors. (Especially the latter with rimfire ammo).
Will a Lilja shoot cheap ammo more accurately than a stock barrel shoots better ammo? I'm guessing not, but I could be wrong. I can get Wolf Match Target for $60/brk. Bulk ammo I can get for about $40/brick. So, the math means the $400 Lilja would cost the same as shooting the better ammo for 10,000 rounds.
Not only can I not afford to run Lapua Midas+ for every shot, but I can't afford a really high end target scope. And it seems to me that shooting better ammo and having much more precise POA are larger factors than the actual rifle itself.
But I might soon have some actual data to go with my suspicion. My BF and his soup-to-nuts VPT should be pretty close to dialed in when I next see him, and we'll have a friendly shoot-out to see just how big the difference is between a $700 VTC and $1600+ worth of VPT.
He's a much better marksman than I, so we'll have to make the experiment double-blind to be sure.
Will a Lilja shoot cheap ammo more accurately than a stock barrel shoots better ammo? I'm guessing not, but I could be wrong. I can get Wolf Match Target for $60/brk. Bulk ammo I can get for about $40/brick. So, the math means the $400 Lilja would cost the same as shooting the better ammo for 10,000 rounds.
Not only can I not afford to run Lapua Midas+ for every shot, but I can't afford a really high end target scope. And it seems to me that shooting better ammo and having much more precise POA are larger factors than the actual rifle itself.
But I might soon have some actual data to go with my suspicion. My BF and his soup-to-nuts VPT should be pretty close to dialed in when I next see him, and we'll have a friendly shoot-out to see just how big the difference is between a $700 VTC and $1600+ worth of VPT.
He's a much better marksman than I, so we'll have to make the experiment double-blind to be sure.
Yep, you are wrong.
A really quality rimfire barrel will make almost any subsonic .22LR ammunition look "okay", and often do so as far as 180-220 yards (at which point it sometimes seems like the world just falls apart).
It is extremely clear with a good shooter and a good rifle that there's ~1 MOA or better difference between really good ammo and and not-so-good, but in now way will a Marlin stock barrel keep up with a CZ, nor will said CZ keep up with an Anschutz 54. Not with any ammo.
But nobody should expect that either.
-Nate
No, what I am saying is that quality barrels will consistently outshoot "okay' barrels, and that quality barrels shoot mid-grade ammo VERY well despite the quality.
I can't speak specifically to the Lilja v. CZ...but Dan does make one HELLUVA barrel. It's nothing against CZ...short of an Anschutz for twice the money, they are the best factory stuff in the world for an accurate bolt action .22.
I'd strongly wager that a CZ would outshoot a lot of Anschutz 64 rifles. It's a better action, and the Annie 64 is pretty thin for what it is asked to do.
But the barrels on CZ rifles, while very good, just cannot have the time spent on them--economically--that a match barrel does. Hell, a Lilja costs more for the blank than most guy's whole rifle/scope/mounts.
-Nate
I can't speak specifically to the Lilja v. CZ...but Dan does make one HELLUVA barrel. It's nothing against CZ...short of an Anschutz for twice the money, they are the best factory stuff in the world for an accurate bolt action .22.
I'd strongly wager that a CZ would outshoot a lot of Anschutz 64 rifles. It's a better action, and the Annie 64 is pretty thin for what it is asked to do.
But the barrels on CZ rifles, while very good, just cannot have the time spent on them--economically--that a match barrel does. Hell, a Lilja costs more for the blank than most guy's whole rifle/scope/mounts.
-Nate
Thanks for the reply. I was of the opinion that ammo mattered more than barrel, and I thought you were disagreeing my assertion. The CZ barrels (in Varmint trim like mine) are pretty highly regarded. But the Liljas are better. It's the nature of small-volume boutique production vs mass production.
My friend has a Lilja in hand for his VPT, but hasn't installed it yet or shot the rifle. He's still putting together the bipod, scope. rings, etc.
A lilja-barreled 455 is amazing, and can hang with almost any Annie or Cooper. Maybe someday I'll know for myself.
For now, I'll have to shrink my groups with better ammo and less shooter error.
My friend has a Lilja in hand for his VPT, but hasn't installed it yet or shot the rifle. He's still putting together the bipod, scope. rings, etc.
A lilja-barreled 455 is amazing, and can hang with almost any Annie or Cooper. Maybe someday I'll know for myself.
For now, I'll have to shrink my groups with better ammo and less shooter error.
I finally got to shoot my 455 under more controlled conditions. At 25 yards, I had this 20rd group just around an inch. This was not off a bipod or rest, either-- just the shelf on my lane. So not exactly steady and plenty of shooter error.
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A tale of two 455s
So yesterday I got to shoot my 455 at 100 yards for real (indoors) off a bipod with a rear bag. Interesting comparison to my best friend's 455.
MY 455:
-- Stock Tacticool, Fastenal 159C spring (1# 15oz), cheap Nikon 2-7 P-rimfire scope
HIS 455:
-- 455 Varmint Precision Trainer, Lilja Barrel, YoDave trigger kit (1# 4oz), SWFA 3-15 FFP in Burris XTR Signature Rings, Matthews Precision cheek riser. It's quite the impressive rifle.
He was shooting some Lapua Center-x. I had Wolf Match Target.
At 50 yards, the performance of the rifles was pretty much indistinguishable. Either one would make a five-shot group with at least 4 of them touching. Most commonly, it was 5 touching holes.
It was at 100 yards where his rifle really showed the goods. I was struggling to get 2.5" groups at 100 yards. His rifle was putting 4/5 shots within 3/4"
. At 100 yards.
So why did my 455 fall apart at 100 yards after doing so well at 50?
I think the biggest difference was ammo. My groups were stringing vertically with very little windage change (well within the 1" mark), which IMO indicates variation in ammo velocity. As good as Wolf is "for the money" it's simply not true match grade ammo like the Lapua. There's a reason the Lapua costs over double what the Wolf costs.
When you have an additional 6.5MOA of drop from 50 yds to 100 yds, ammo variation is greatly magnified.
Secondly, I think it is my cheap scope. You just can't hold a consistently tight POA with 7x at 100 yards and a simple BDC reticle. The center of the target was barely larger than my crosshairs, so it was really hard to hold aim. For ultimate accuracy, I think I'd need finer crosshairs and/or more magnification.
By contrast, the SWFA has a 1/4 MOA center dot in the reticle. Just put the dot centered on the bullseye and squeeze. Done.
So far, I can say that my 455 remains a wonderfully accurate .22 rifle. You can spend a lot more, but it's hard to do appreciable better without spending a LOT more money. It's accurate enough to you can clearly document the differences in accuracy between bulk ammo, decent ammo, and match grade stuff. The trigger is fantastic and makes the rifle truly a pleasure.
This thing is the most fun I've ever had with a firearm.
So yesterday I got to shoot my 455 at 100 yards for real (indoors) off a bipod with a rear bag. Interesting comparison to my best friend's 455.
MY 455:
-- Stock Tacticool, Fastenal 159C spring (1# 15oz), cheap Nikon 2-7 P-rimfire scope
HIS 455:
-- 455 Varmint Precision Trainer, Lilja Barrel, YoDave trigger kit (1# 4oz), SWFA 3-15 FFP in Burris XTR Signature Rings, Matthews Precision cheek riser. It's quite the impressive rifle.
He was shooting some Lapua Center-x. I had Wolf Match Target.
At 50 yards, the performance of the rifles was pretty much indistinguishable. Either one would make a five-shot group with at least 4 of them touching. Most commonly, it was 5 touching holes.
It was at 100 yards where his rifle really showed the goods. I was struggling to get 2.5" groups at 100 yards. His rifle was putting 4/5 shots within 3/4"
. At 100 yards.So why did my 455 fall apart at 100 yards after doing so well at 50?
I think the biggest difference was ammo. My groups were stringing vertically with very little windage change (well within the 1" mark), which IMO indicates variation in ammo velocity. As good as Wolf is "for the money" it's simply not true match grade ammo like the Lapua. There's a reason the Lapua costs over double what the Wolf costs.
When you have an additional 6.5MOA of drop from 50 yds to 100 yds, ammo variation is greatly magnified.
Secondly, I think it is my cheap scope. You just can't hold a consistently tight POA with 7x at 100 yards and a simple BDC reticle. The center of the target was barely larger than my crosshairs, so it was really hard to hold aim. For ultimate accuracy, I think I'd need finer crosshairs and/or more magnification.
By contrast, the SWFA has a 1/4 MOA center dot in the reticle. Just put the dot centered on the bullseye and squeeze. Done.
So far, I can say that my 455 remains a wonderfully accurate .22 rifle. You can spend a lot more, but it's hard to do appreciable better without spending a LOT more money. It's accurate enough to you can clearly document the differences in accuracy between bulk ammo, decent ammo, and match grade stuff. The trigger is fantastic and makes the rifle truly a pleasure.
This thing is the most fun I've ever had with a firearm.
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Nah, it's not the scope (well, as long is it is holding a zero). You were likely correct...Wolf MT just doesn't have the right stuff for 100. Been there, done that. Now Wolf ME is a lot better. Still no Tenex, but pretty okay. Like...less than an inch okay.
Glad you're having such a good time with it. Accurate rifles really do make the difference, don't they...
-Nate
Glad you're having such a good time with it. Accurate rifles really do make the difference, don't they...
-Nate
After reading some real horror stories about 455s that just won't shoot on a certain other forum, I was somewhat fearful that my CZ wouldn't measure up to the reputation. So far, so good.
I'm looking forward to see how it shoots after a thousand rounds or so.
I'm looking forward to see how it shoots after a thousand rounds or so.
grunt soldier
Master
Out to 50 yards I haven't really found an ammo my 455 won't shoot. Mine is a tack driver. You definitely notice a difference between the match ammo though. Lot less of that one random flyer.
My favorite so far is eley and sk.
My favorite so far is eley and sk.
grunt soldier
Master
Bumping this up again. Just had the 455 out back and damn my gun will just plain shoot. So much fun a 50 yards. Was running CCi standard velocity and almost every 5 round group was a clover leaf.
So much fun. Love this rifle
So much fun. Love this rifle
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