Multiple Views of Flash-Mob "Survivors"

[iChokePeople]

I wonder if anyone still thinks that 7+1 in a 1911 is wise with such flash mobs becoming more popular...

Yes. But mine are 8+1. Shooting someone more than once should be a choice, not a requirement.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Yes. But mine are 8+1. Shooting someone more than once should be a choice, not a requirement.

Carrying half as many rocks doesn't make your rocks more accurate...it just means you don't have as many rocks. The skill of the slinger doesn't negate the benefit of having additional rocks.

If you get attacked by a large mob...8+1 might just be enough to get them really ticked off & give them proper incentive to begin manual separation of your parts.

 

[goinggreyfast]

Interesting post. Makes me think that there will be x-tra mags on my person and a speed loader or two on my wife--especially if we go into areas where something like this COULD happen.

 

[iChokePeople]

Carrying half as many rocks doesn't make your rocks more accurate...it just means you don't have as many rocks. The skill of the slinger doesn't negate the benefit of having additional rocks.

No, but having smaller rocks doesn't make them more accurate, either. I think we all agree that if your aim is perfect, the size of the rocks is more or less moot. If it's not, I'd rather be half an inch off with a BFR than with a little one.

But let's not take this thread into another endless, pointless debate on 9mm vs. .45 or on soulless plastic vs. endless unquestionable beauty.

 

[UncleMike]

I think the whole thing brings up an interesting question/topic for discussion. Do you draw? Do you shoot? You're talking about a bunch of young kids... At what point do you draw? Only after they start hitting you? It would be interesting to mentally move this scenario to Indianapolis (so that our resident attorneys can give answers as to how *Indiana* would view our choices) and talk about it.

In MY slow little mind, it's a pretty tough one. You draw before they actually do anything and you're just some crazy guy pulling a gun on a bunch of little kids. You wait, and you have other issues. You shoot and... well, that's a whole new can of worms.

My sig line from another forum.
"Never pick a fight with an old man. Since he's too old to fight, he'll just shoot you."

 

[Paco Bedejo]

No, but having smaller rocks doesn't make them more accurate, either. I think we all agree that if your aim is perfect, the size of the rocks is more or less moot.

So, you've just agreed that the caliber issue is moot and that one is not more accurate than the other. Why, then, would you choose to carry half as many rounds in a pistol which doesn't offer any weight savings? Is it really just down to aesthetic for you? Bling > Capability?

If it's not, I'd rather be half an inch off with a BFR than with a little one.

But let's not take this thread into another endless, pointless debate on 9mm vs. .45 or on soulless plastic vs. endless unquestionable beauty.

Your definition of little rock & big rock doesn't really apply to discussion between 40s&w & 45ACP.

That said, I'm looking forward to changing out my XDm 40s&w for a Gen 4 Glock 20 if they ever release them. 15+1 10mm Auto hitting for about 750 ft/lbs in a package I can conceal makes our argument seem silly...unless you really are all about the aesthetics...

 

[henktermaat]

We discuss this in another thread, feel free to join in: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ash_mob_attack_how_to_defend.html#post1979095

 

[iChokePeople]

My sig line from another forum.
"Never pick a fight with an old man. Since he's too old to fight, he'll just shoot you."

+1. And another +1 for every year I get older.

As I said, Paco, I'm not doing the cal/safeties/gun comp thing here and derailing the thread. Carry what you like. We can beat those dead horses some more in some other thread if you want to, but I'm done with it in this thread.

 

[jeremy]

So, you've just agreed that the caliber issue is moot and that one is not more accurate than the other. Why, then, would you choose to carry half as many rounds in a pistol which doesn't offer any weight savings? Is it really just down to aesthetic for you? Bling > Capability?



Your definition of little rock & big rock doesn't really apply to discussion between 40s&w & 45ACP.

That said, I'm looking forward to changing out my XDm 40s&w for a Gen 4 Glock 20 if they ever release them. 15+1 10mm Auto hitting for about 750 ft/lbs in a package I can conceal makes our argument seem silly...unless you really are all about the aesthetics...

No what it comes done to for me is that Glocks suck for me to shoot. Cannot hit with them, unless I take the time to deliberately aim every shoot. My Sigs, 1911, and Revolvers I have, different story. I shoot them just a little better.

As far as Capacity and Caliber selection, who cares as long as the person using those knows the Pros and Cons to what they are carrying...

 

[Paco Bedejo]

No what it comes done to for me is that Glocks suck for me to shoot. Cannot hit with them, unless I take the time to deliberately aim every shoot. My Sigs, 1911, and Revolvers I have, different story. I shoot them just a little better.

I don't understand this...I don't consider myself a crack shot by any interpretation. My first time shooting my XDm (only the third time I'd ever gone shooting), I fired 16 rounds in about 8 seconds (±2 sec) & had all but one on a 9" target from 15 yards (I wanted some sort of baseline). I've only gotten better from there. My accuracy limitation is the short grip-distance on my XDm forcing my trigger finger into a weird angle, causing me to push down/left too often. This is one reason I'm looking forward to a full size Glock 20.

I guess if some people are confused about which end goes where when they're holding a plastic pistol...they really are better off with a low capacity, expensive metal pistol/revolver.

 

[singlestacksig]

I don't understand this...I don't consider myself a crack shot by any interpretation. My first time shooting my XDm (only the third time I'd ever gone shooting), I fired 16 rounds in about 8 seconds (±2 sec) & had all but one on a 9" target from 15 yards (I wanted some sort of baseline). I've only gotten better from there. My accuracy limitation is the short grip-distance on my XDm forcing my trigger finger into a weird angle, causing me to push down/left too often. This is one reason I'm looking forward to a full size Glock 20.

I guess if some people are confused about which end goes where when they're holding a plastic pistol...they really are better off with a low capacity, expensive metal pistol/revolver.

grip width. some people grip thinner guns better.. I have long fingers so I have to buy "large" gloves and such , but the palm of my hand is not that big.. so I do not shoot double stacked guns as well as I shoot single stack guns..
Most glocks are double stack .. newer gun designs allow for grip changes that allow a shooter to find a better grip..

 

[Paco Bedejo]

grip width. some people grip thinner guns better.. I have long fingers so I have to buy "large" gloves and such , but the palm of my hand is not that big.. so I do not shoot double stacked guns as well as I shoot single stack guns..
Most glocks are double stack .. newer gun designs allow for grip changes that allow a shooter to find a better grip..

Ah, I had never considered such a thing. I always figured single-stack pistols existed for only two reasons; reliable feeding & concealability. Thank you very much for the clarification.

 

[BlueEagle]

Everybody likes different guns in different calibers; we get it.

And I think that most of the time, (hopefully, at least,) the fact that you are shooting at a mob, (no matter the weapon or capacity,) will get them to turn tail and run. I don't know about you, but I think that if I were in a mob and somebody started shooting, I probably wouldn't be thinking, "Well, he's got 7 rounds left, and there are 100 of us, so I have a 93% chance of walking out of this unharmed....."

I'll probably be thinking more along the lines of "Holy *@&% get out from behind me you *@*@&$)_$* I'm trying to run that ($)@&$ way!"

 

[jeremy]

I don't understand this...I don't consider myself a crack shot by any interpretation. My first time shooting my XDm (only the third time I'd ever gone shooting), I fired 16 rounds in about 8 seconds (±2 sec) & had all but one on a 9" target from 15 yards (I wanted some sort of baseline). I've only gotten better from there. My accuracy limitation is the short grip-distance on my XDm forcing my trigger finger into a weird angle, causing me to push down/left too often. This is one reason I'm looking forward to a full size Glock 20.

For me it is the angle at which a Glock Grip is at. Throws off my Muscle Memory, if I do not consciously take the time to aim every shot I will shoot over the targets at 25 feet. Is it a really big deal, probably not, i mean we are talking a couple of inches. Can I still shoot one well, yes I can. Why retrain myself when I do not like the Firearm to start with though?!

Well that and I think the ergonomics of a Glock are pitiful for my wants, needs, and desires.

I guess if some people are confused about which end goes where when they're holding a plastic pistol...they really are better off with a low capacity, expensive metal pistol/revolver.

I guess for those that are to weak to lift a pistol made with some ironin it, they can keep playing with plastic toys as well...

grip width. some people grip thinner guns better.. I have long fingers so I have to buy "large" gloves and such , but the palm of my hand is not that big.. so I do not shoot double stacked guns as well as I shoot single stack guns..
Most glocks are double stack .. newer gun designs allow for grip changes that allow a shooter to find a better grip..

Exactly.

Different tools fit people better than others...

 

[Paco Bedejo]

I guess for those that are to weak to lift a pistol made with some ironin it, they can keep playing with plastic toys as well...

Loaded, my XDm weighs more than a 1911. Perhaps you've not held (17) .40s&w at once?

 

[TomN]

Gonna start carrying my 33 round mags for my Glocks now.

 

[Indy317]

If you get attacked by a large mob...8+1 might just be enough to get them really ticked off & give them proper incentive to begin manual separation of your parts.

I doubt it. Look at the videos posted over on World Star Hip Hop (NSFW) or any other upload video website. I haven't seen any videos where the attackers continue the attack after a gun is displayed/fired. In almost all the videos I can think of off the top of my head, everyone runs away. Now one or two might run away firing, but so long as they are running one way and your running another, chances are you won't need that many rounds to stop the violence.

So, you've just agreed that the caliber issue is moot and that one is not more accurate than the other. Why, then, would you choose to carry half as many rounds in a pistol which doesn't offer any weight savings? Is it really just down to aesthetic for you? Bling > Capability?

The poster said that hitting the target is what counted. For some, that might mean carrying a pistol that only takes single stack magazines. I have a CZ-52. Horrible sight picture (very small sights, very small notch in the rear sight to see through, etc.). It holds seven in the magazine. The magazine release is horrible in terms of a quick reload. However, I get much better groupings with that semi-auto than any other semi-auto I have ever shot. I don't carry the CZ-52, but for some, they may prefer the better accuracy they have with their Sig Sauer P232, their 1911, etc..

In the end, if a large group of people are attacking you, after you have pulled and fired rounds at them, then you are going to lose. One might be able to fire all the rounds in a 12-18 round magazine before losing the gun, but then again, maybe not. Obviously if one is being beaten by a mob, the chances of a successful mag change is slim as well.

 

[TempusFugit]

And people why I moved from Philly to Indy 17 years ago.

 

[singlestacksig]

I doubt it. Look at the videos posted over on World Star Hip Hop (NSFW) or any other upload video website. I haven't seen any videos where the attackers continue the attack after a gun is displayed/fired. In almost all the videos I can think of off the top of my head, everyone runs away. Now one or two might run away firing, but so long as they are running one way and your running another, chances are you won't need that many rounds to stop the violence.



The poster said that hitting the target is what counted. For some, that might mean carrying a pistol that only takes single stack magazines. I have a CZ-52. Horrible sight picture (very small sights, very small notch in the rear sight to see through, etc.). It holds seven in the magazine. The magazine release is horrible in terms of a quick reload. However, I get much better groupings with that semi-auto than any other semi-auto I have ever shot. I don't carry the CZ-52, but for some, they may prefer the better accuracy they have with their Sig Sauer P232, their 1911, etc..

In the end, if a large group of people are attacking you, after you have pulled and fired rounds at them, then you are going to lose. One might be able to fire all the rounds in a 12-18 round magazine before losing the gun, but then again, maybe not. Obviously if one is being beaten by a mob, the chances of a successful mag change is slim as well.

agreed, if the mob does not scatter at the sounds first few rounds you are probably going to lose.. if a mass of 20+ people really wants to kill you , you need backed up by belt fed heavy guns...

 

[Paco Bedejo]

agreed, if the mob does not scatter at the sounds first few rounds you are probably going to lose.. if a mass of 20+ people really wants to kill you , you need backed up by belt fed heavy guns...

If you only have 9 rounds with you, you're definitely going to lose if they don't scatter. If you have 33 or 49 rounds (1 or 2 spare mags for me), then you at least have a slim chance...