Most popular cartridge can't be used in Indiana?

[Indy_Guy_77]

Okay, not that I need any more abuse, but, why is the 45-70 GOVT not allowed? That's a beast of a round.

The Indiana Hunting Regulations prohibit it. That's the snarky answer.

The reality of how those regulations came to be, specifically pertaining to deer hunting with a long gun, are steeped in politics from the halcyon days of yesteryear. They're relatively unchanged from when the white tail deer was all but wiped out, then reintroduced/protected, and then hunting opened up again.

Whatever the reasons, it's asinine.

Proof that it's asinine is that you can hunt squirrel with the .45-70 and be perfectly within the law.

-J-

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Does anyone know the history of why the rules were written the way they are?

When whitetail deer were re-introduced into Indiana, the hunting regulation were written to intentionally handicap hunters so that deer could thrive, and thrive they did.

However, after several decades the whitetail thrived and, in Weberian fashion, DNR lost sight of its goal and redoubled its efforts. The given cover story became "safety", which on its face is moronic as one can shoot a coyote with a .30-'06 or a squirrel in a tree with a .270. The Pennsylvania study put the coffin nail in this argument.

We are left with a combination of politics (the tiny trophy deer hunter lobby is panicked over centerfire rifle cartridge use for deer) and good old fashion inertia, it's always been like this so it shall always be.

The pistol cartridge rule is seen as a safety valve for IDNR. They believe that this should pacify enough hunters so that centerfire cartridge use (for general licensees, not just predation hunting) is not brought back up.

 

[brotherbill3]

...
However, after several decades the whitetail thrived and, in Weberian fashion, DNR lost sight of its goal and redoubled its efforts. The given cover story became "safety", which on its face is moronic as one can shoot a coyote with a .30-'06 or a squirrel in a tree with a .270. The Pennsylvania study put the coffin nail in this argument.
....

Kirk,
I grew up in PA ... but I had stopped hunting for a few years ... I am curious what study? ... I know current PA regs (I've looked a time or two since moving to Indiana and taking up the chase again) have more restrictions than they used to have. Such as certain areas (flatter and more populated areas) are shot-gun or muzzle-loader only.

I can partly understand the 'safety' thinking in Indiana - yet not really agree with it - because it is based up 'generalizing' the hunting population. I guess it just doesn't bother me that much, because until I have a safe place to hunt (private land with enough area and no one else in it) ... I will not hunt shotgun season anyway. ... that's my weekend off ... or to hunt birds and rabbits w/ my retriever.

Anyway I was just curious about the study. Thanks in advance for the info.

 

[PatriotPride]

Okay, not that I need any more abuse, but, why is the 45-70 GOVT not allowed? That's a beast of a round.

You just have to learn which members are to be ignored, and you'll do fine. This is a place of learning---if you can't find the answer using the SEARCH function then ask away. Welcome to INGO.

 

[tenring]

Here’s how the study went.

”Technology has changed for the shotgun and muzzleloader, and the difference between them and a [deer] rifle is decreasing from what it was years ago,” Mountaintop consultant Todd Bacastow said.
The study examined ballistics data on three popular deer-hunting guns: a .30-06 rifle, a 12-gauge shotgun and a .50-caliber muzzleloader. The rifle had the greatest maximum range at 2.64 miles, followed by the shotgun at 1.97 miles and the muzzleloader, which generally uses heavier and slower bullets, at 1.74 miles.
However, Bacastow noted that to achieve maximum range, shots must be fired at a 35-degree angle, which is highly unlikely in a hunting situation. He noted that a bullet fired at a 35-degree angle toward a deer 100 yards away would fly 210 feet above the animal’s back.
Most shots fired by hunters are relatively flat, and even a slight aiming error usually results in a shot less than 5 degrees above the horizon. When shots are fired at an elevation of 5 degrees, the total distances traveled, including ricochets, are 1.66 miles for a rifle bullet and 1.3 miles for a shotgun slug.
When shots are fired holding the guns level 3 feet off the ground, the shotgun slug will travel 0.99 of a mile, 16 percent farther than the rifle bullet will travel under the same circumstances.
The reason, Bacastow said, is that slugs tend to hold together better and lose less energy during ricochets than rifle bullets. Therefore, slugs often can travel farther than rifle bullets in common hunting scenarios.
​

 

[tenring]

Okay, not that I need any more abuse, but, why is the 45-70 GOVT not allowed? That's a beast of a round.

FWIW, when we started pushing for the inclusion of straight walled rifle cases 20 years ago, that would have gotten the 45-70 a free ride as it does not have a shoulder, and Dr. Ballistics stated "it has the trajectory of a thrown brick." But alas, the overall case length was added [which killed the "beast of a round"], and shoulders were OK [which pissed me off], and the result was short to medium range cartridges were in. Now the wildcatters have found a loop hole and are taking advantage of it. Why don't you build a custom rifle that fits the regulations?

 

[Jack Ryan]

Well KW, I was one of those guys who helped start the deal that long ago, and it ruffles my feathers when a "Johnie Come Lately" want to change the rules to suit him. Remember the guy who wanted to legalize the 10mm for deer hunting? Let him start going to all the NRC meetings and get the rules changed, just like we did long ago. The Net just ain't the place. Maybe be place to find the info for time and place for the meetings, but that's all. He would learn more about the what's and why's there than here. BTW, got a WWG Large Loop Lever on my Marlin 1994 in .44 Magnum, and put a Nikon 2.5 X 10 in Burris mounts the other day. Luv that little rifle. Glad your where your at instead of the Mill?

To the OP and the rest who don't understand why the rules don't make any sense and seem to have been gerrymandered to pacify a Jonny come lately, see your answer above.

What?

You thought you were the first to ever throw your selves to the ground, cry and hold your breath rather than just read the rules and learn to hunt?

 

[hodgej1843]

[]Yup, that's the heck.
man thats to funny

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I am curious what study?

A study by the Pennsylvania Game Commission. I have cited it several times before but here it is again:

The "safe" slug myth: shotgun slugs are required in some areas, but why? | Guns Magazine | Find Articles at BNET

just read the rules and learn to hunt?

"They found in the shotgun-only states, this appears to be an issue driven by emotion and politics rather than sound scientific data."

They are my deer just as much as they are your deer. The rules are moronic and without any foundation in science but rather founded on the dithering, baseless conclusions of uneducated bureaucrats. Time to change the rules.