Minute of Angle?

[Doug]

I don't hold as well as a lot of shooters and even with sand bags I wander around the target a lot at 100 yards, and that's not even mentioning wind!
.
If I can get a rifle to shoot a 1/4 inch group, center-to-center, at 25 yards, can I claim this is a "minute of angle" rifle?
Or do I have to do 1 inch at 100 yards?
How about 1/2 inch at 50?

Opinions, please.

 

[OneBadV8]

technically any distance works. Obviously the further the distance the more impressive though. Do you use too much zoom at further distances?

I would like to think if you can do it at 25 or 50 you can do it at 100

 

[jcwit]

I can shoot a lot closer than 1/4 inch center to center at 100 yards. Thats 5 shot groups BTW. Thats using a .223 bolt action, single shot and a bench rest.

With little to no wind I have a few .22 rimfire rifles that will shoot under a min. of angle at 100 yards. Course thats not using $20 buck a brick ammo either, slightly higher cost than than, more like over $150 bucks a brick.

 

[the1kidd03]

I would tend to think that assuming the shooter is not an excellent shooter, but still able to achieve some form of "MOA" at any distance CONSISTENTLY, then it's entirely feasible to consider the gun itself a 1 MOA rifle because if even the "so, so" shooter can do it, it will only improve with a more experienced shooter.

 

[chuddly]

just my opinion but at 25 or even 50 yards (excluding a 22lr) you dont really know what it will do because you havent given the bullet enough time to go off course. think about shooting at a target 5 ft from the end of the barrel. I bet all your bullets are either in the same hole or touching. Then move that target back to 50 yards and you may find that that gun is shooting a 3" group. Move it out to 100 yards and it may be a 10" group. You just never know

 

[CountryBoy19]

I can shoot a lot closer than 1/4 inch center to center at 100 yards. Thats 5 shot groups BTW. Thats using a .223 bolt action, single shot and a bench rest.

With little to no wind I have a few .22 rimfire rifles that will shoot under a min. of angle at 100 yards. Course thats not using $20 buck a brick ammo either, slightly higher cost than than, more like over $150 bucks a brick.

I don't think that really answers his question. I've shot 1.75" center to center at 500 yards before but that doesn't answer it either.

As OnebadV8 said technically MOA is MOA no matter what the range is but typically most people go for 100 yds or 200 yds. Really the "common" range it's measure at depends on what you're shooting. Most real long-range precision shooters like to test loads at 200 yards minimum if possible (100 yds is normally considered the absolute minimum to test a long-range load). A rimfire shooter is probably going to test at 25 or 50 yards depending on his/her shooting style etc. Handgun shooters will probably be testing at 25 yards max for most realistic handgun accuracy tests.

So really, it greatly depends on what "context" it is in regards to.

I'm not going to come on here and talk about how I can shoot 4 MOA at 300 yds with my handgun and I'm not going to talk about how I can shoot 1/2 MOA at 10 yards with my long-range precision rifle.

 

[42769vette]

.1 inch at 10 yards is 1 (shooters) minute of angle. the thing i see alot is folks saying "my rifle is 1/2moa" and you look at the pic of the group and its a 3 shot group with a called flyier. socasically 2 shots landed on top of each other

 

[indyjoe]

I look at 100 yards for a rifle, because I see many things that are not present at closer distance. My 250 grain rounds from my .44 1894 Marlin go through the target fine at 25 yards. They are going through the target sideways at 100 yards. It is under 2 MOA at 25 yards with those and 4 MOA+ at 100.

When I consider qualifying a tool, I want to know what is the WORST accuracy over the intended range of use. So I don't care if a caliper is +/- 0.002 within MOST of the range, but is +/- 0.050 within the last inch. I have to assume it is +/- 0.050. I think the same of a rifle, over its intended useful range. For most of mine, that us 200 yards and under.

 

[Double T]

Minute of angle is a measure of the distance from center to the "hit" in relation to the distance from the target. They're all directly related, and 1 MOA is 1 MOA regardless of distance from target, it's just that the farther out you are the farther away from center you can be and still be sub MOA

And I do like Bacon.

 

[jcwit]

I don't think that really answers his question. I've shot 1.75" center to center at 500 yards before but that doesn't answer it either.

Oh but it does answer the question. Depending on the wind, and that is a major factor, I can do it every time. So YES the equipment and loads are more than capable. So in reality it all falls onto me, and unless I'm sick, or my sugar is WAY out of control, it is going to be under a minute of anagle.

 

[phylodog]

When using MOA for measuring groups it is the maximum distance between the center of the two farthest holes in the group. It has nothing to do with the distance of the group from the center of the target or the center hit of the group. It is the farthest distance between the rounds fired on target.

If a rifle will shoot 5 shot groups which measure under 1.047" measured center to center at 100 yards more often than not I will consider it a sub MOA shooter. The only rifle which would get that label by shooting at 50 or 25 yards would be a 22lr.

A small problem with form will barely register on a target at 25 yards but could translate to a complete miss at 700 yards. I personally consider 100 yards to be the minimum distance to attempt evaluating the accuracy of a rifle/load.

 

[dagger dog]

One minute of angle comes out to 1.0472", so really you could round off to 1" at 100 yds. 2" at 200 yds and so it goes.

IMO why would you want to sight in a centerfire rifle under a 100yds, unless you don't have the physical area to do it, and then you would have to rely on a ballistic chart or computer program to calculate the trajectory, and everyone knows you really have to shoot your specific load to zero your scope-sights.

 

[sloughfoot]

You are the one who has to stare back at yourself in the mirror in the morning..

I refuse to be your conscience.

 

[Doug]

I look at 100 yards for a rifle, because I see many things that are not present at closer distance. My 250 grain rounds from my .44 1894 Marlin go through the target fine at 25 yards. They are going through the target sideways at 100 yards. It is under 2 MOA at 25 yards with those and 4 MOA+ at 100.

When I consider qualifying a tool, I want to know what is the WORST accuracy over the intended range of use. So I don't care if a caliper is +/- 0.002 within MOST of the range, but is +/- 0.050 within the last inch. I have to assume it is +/- 0.050. I think the same of a rifle, over its intended useful range. For most of mine, that us 200 yards and under.

2 MOA at 25 yards is 1/2 inch center to center.
With a .44, that would be a one hole group less than an inch in diameter.

 

[Doug]

When using MOA for measuring groups it is the maximum distance between the center of the two farthest holes in the group. It has nothing to do with the distance of the group from the center of the target or the center hit of the group. It is the farthest distance between the rounds fired on target.

If a rifle will shoot 5 shot groups which measure under 1.047" measured center to center at 100 yards more often than not I will consider it a sub MOA shooter. The only rifle which would get that label by shooting at 50 or 25 yards would be a 22lr.

A small problem with form will barely register on a target at 25 yards but could translate to a complete miss at 700 yards. I personally consider 100 yards to be the minimum distance to attempt evaluating the accuracy of a rifle/load.

The rifle in question is, in fact, a 22lr.

 

[Doug]

You are the one who has to stare back at yourself in the mirror in the morning..

I refuse to be your conscience.

I am looking for opinions, not permission.

 

[sloughfoot]

I am looking for opinions, not permission.

You are right, poor answer on my part. I look for groups over the long term over a variety of conditions and positions. When I state in public that my rifle is a "X" moa rifle it is because that I have proven to myself over time that we can perform to that standard consistantly.

One or two groups on a single outing would not induce me to make a statement as to the accuracy of a rifle ammo combo. For centerfire rifles, I use 300 yards as the baseline.

For rimfire, I use the 50 yard NRA slowfire prone target.

I hope this is a more helpful comment.

 

[Doug]

You are right, poor answer on my part. I look for groups over the long term over a variety of conditions and positions. When I state in public that my rifle is a "X" moa rifle it is because that I have proven to myself over time that we can perform to that standard consistantly.

One or two groups on a single outing would not induce me to make a statement as to the accuracy of a rifle ammo combo. For centerfire rifles, I use 300 yards as the baseline.

For rimfire, I use the 50 yard NRA slowfire prone target.

I hope this is a more helpful comment.

Indeed, it is and I thank you for it.
I know that I am not a consistent 100 yard MOA shooter.
I suspect the rifle may be MOA capable.
I may have access to a better rest system tomorrow.
If I can minimize human error, perhaps I can get a better idea of the rifle's capabilities.

 

[sloughfoot]

What can I do or say to try to get you to not rely on a rest system for shooting your rifle? A rest is useful for boresighting a new sight arrangement, but after those intiial couple of shots, shooting from a tight sling position provides far more useful feedback.

I would be happy to show you if you were willing to travel to NE Indiana for an afternoon.

A properly employed rifleman's sling will do all you you are looking to accomplish and will provide a true indicator of your shooting ability.

 

[Doug]

I agree. I need to become a better shooter and a sling may help.
Right now, I'm just trying to find out what the rifle can do.