Military personnel blow the whistle on exercise

[WHAT HAPPENED]

WE HAVE TO spread the word to everyone and tell them what is going on

E-MAIL THEM
POST LINK'S ON OTHER FORUMS
CALL FAMILY / FRIENDS
We need to spread the word NOOWWW!!!!!!!!!!

Before they shut down communications....

 

[rhino]

Sadly, even if the troops really are being trained to suppress "insurrection" (i.e. legitimate protests against a tyrannical gov't), the mainstream of the population will make the choice to disbelieve it until the situation has gone beyond the point of no return. It won't matter what kind of evidence is produced. By the time joe average cares enough to notice what is happening, it will be too late.

 

[E5RANGER375]

History ALWAYS repeats itself. its just than men/government get more clever on the way they hide, and perpetrate it each time.

 

[Expat]

As I recall Federal troops have been used against civilians several other times than mentioned above. They also opened fire on said civilians (coal strikes in WV, railroad strikes) There was even mention of General Billy Mitchelll going to use chemical weapons but luckily they didn't get there against the coal miners.

 

[evansvillethompsongunner]

We are the Omega Men, apparently.

 

[evansvillethompsongunner]

OUR GOVERNMENT IS NOT OUR COUNTRY.
OUR GOVERNMENT IS NOT OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNANCE.
OUR GOVERNMENT IS NOT THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

WE ARE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND WE ARE BEING LEAD TO OUR OWN DESTRUCTION BY TYRANTS AND VILLAINS WHO WOULD SOONER SHOOT US DEAD THAN TO RELINQUISH OUR RIGHTFUL POWERS BACK TO US.

 

[ocsdor]

Something else to keep in mind. Even though the percentage of troops loyal to 'the people' and the constitution may be arguable; you can bet that the foreign troops the government brings in will be 100% against 'the people'.

 

[flatlander]

I'm not ex-military, but isn't this presicely what they are trained to do... follow orders blindly???
I think more would follow orders than many choose to beleive...

You are aaaaaaaaaaay out of your lane here.
For over 20 years I was taught NOT to blindly follow orders. You have NO idea of what you are talking about.
I'm too pissed to keep typing since it seems to be a lot more knowledgeable people around here.

 

[WWIIIDefender]

Can any military memebers here give a personal account of when you directly disobeyed and order. I was in the military for 6 years and I made E6 and I can't. Yes there were some questionable orders that I got and I did infact question them after the fact but when push came to shove I usually followed orders.

 

[Joe Williams]

Can any military memebers here give a personal account of when you directly disobeyed and order. I was in the military for 6 years and I made E6 and I can't. Yes there were some questionable orders that I got and I did infact question them after the fact but when push came to shove I usually followed orders.

My wing commander once ordered me to let him into his command post during an exercise. He'd forgotten his restricted area badge, being in a big rush. Since he was new, I'd never seen him, and the pictures in our books weren't updated, I refused. He insisted somewhat emphatically, I refused even more emphatically... I planted his face on the ground. He was a little torqured at first, but got over it quickly and thanked me for doing a good job protecting his CP.

Had an Airman under my command one night while I was his area supervisor lock and load on an Army butter bar who "broke red" (entered a restricted area improperly.) When challenged by my Airman the silly twit tried to order him to surrender his weapon, then moved to take it. His platoon sgt saved his life by tackling him. That one resulted in a midnight call to our Colonel, which then resulted in another to the LTs commander to come get his handcuffed officer from our CO's office. Platoon sgt said the boy wasn't overly bright, and was overly proud of his bars. One of those who didn't think he needed to listen to his NCOs.

Had an airman disobey my order to open fire on a guy one night. The order was legal, the circumstances called for it. However, seeing as how I was busy driving Mach 6 less than two feet away from some F15s trying to push the guy away from them, after already having rammed him once, I didn't see all the MX guys on the other side. Order was still legal, but airman made the call that we were going to be able to protect the resources without firing rounds that would endanger others. He was right.

Few others kind of like that, officers who had to be reminded that the UCMJ gave me the same authority they had in the performance of my duties, more actually in some respects, things of that nature. Never disobeyed a legal order.

 

[WWIIIDefender]

My wing commander once ordered me to let him into his command post during an exercise. He'd forgotten his restricted area badge, being in a big rush. Since he was new, I'd never seen him, and the pictures in our books weren't updated, I refused. He insisted somewhat emphatically, I refused even more emphatically... I planted his face on the ground. He was a little torqured at first, but got over it quickly and thanked me for doing a good job protecting his CP.

Had an Airman under my command one night while I was his area supervisor lock and load on an Army butter bar who "broke red" (entered a restricted area improperly.) When challenged by my Airman the silly twit tried to order him to surrender his weapon, then moved to take it. His platoon sgt saved his life by tackling him. That one resulted in a midnight call to our Colonel, which then resulted in another to the LTs commander to come get his handcuffed officer from our CO's office. Platoon sgt said the boy wasn't overly bright, and was overly proud of his bars. One of those who didn't think he needed to listen to his NCOs.

Had an airman disobey my order to open fire on a guy one night. The order was legal, the circumstances called for it. However, seeing as how I was busy driving Mach 6 less than two feet away from some F15s trying to push the guy away from them, after already having rammed him once, I didn't see all the MX guys on the other side. Order was still legal, but airman made the call that we were going to be able to protect the resources without firing rounds that would endanger others. He was right.

Few others kind of like that, officers who had to be reminded that the UCMJ gave me the same authority they had in the performance of my duties, more actually in some respects, things of that nature. Never disobeyed a legal order.

sorry would have repped you but have to spread it around. Its bigum that were supposed to blame for that right...lol

 

[thompal]

1. The US Military is prohibited by law from engaging in violent conflict with the US population in the homeland, and there has never been any indication whatsoever that the Constitution, Congress approval for military operations and separation of powers have been turned upside down in an alternative world to let this happen.

"18 USC § 1385. Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus
Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."

It says nothing about "violent conflict" It speaks only to enforcing laws in the US.

2. The Army Times article states that 3DIV 1 Brig will have a permanent role in HELPING locals:
"They may be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control or to deal with potentially horrific scenarios such as massive poisoning and chaos in response to a chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear or high-yield explosive, or CBRNE, attack.

Again, helping with "civil unrest" and "crowd control" are law enforcement tasks in the US. In China, the military may be the go-to group to control crowds, but not here.

Training for homeland scenarios has already begun at Fort Stewart and includes specialty tasks such as knowing how to use the “jaws of life” to extract a person from a mangled vehicle; extra medical training for a CBRNE incident; and working with U.S. Forestry Service experts on how to go in with chainsaws and cut and clear trees to clear a road or area.

Are we supposed to believe that this article is telling us the the US military doesn't know how to operate the 'jaws of life?' That is standard rescue equipment, and the last time I looked, the military had Military Police and Fire Departments. In the 30 or 40 years that the Jaws of Life have been in common usage by every fire department in the country, the military is just NOW asking to be taught how to use them? This article is really beyond belief.

The 1st BCT’s soldiers also will learn how to use “the first ever nonlethal package that the Army has fielded,” 1st BCT commander Col. Roger Cloutier said, referring to crowd and traffic control equipment and nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals without killing them.

This is just plain BS. The US military has had nonlethal weapons available to them for at least 15 years.

 

[thompal]

im in no position to do any independent research or investigations into this group. all i can go off of is what i have been presented in my frago.

do i have qualms about killing americans? yes. but would i hesitate to if said american was using terrorist tactics against the civilian population? no. and none of you should either. military or no.

A friend of mine was in the 101st when Waco started. They actually raised his unit's alert status. The lies that were told to the troops were alarming. In fact, they were so preposterous that my friend realized that something was terribly wrong.

I don't know if the lies were meant to hype up the troops, or if that is what came from Washington. I suspect the latter. But, the point is that the soldiers in his unit were told all sorts of really stupid lies with the obvious intent of desensitizing them to the implications of deploying troops in the US to aid law enforcement.

A bigger point is that, even if troops are lied to, ordered and coerced, and they do end up violating the Constitution, does it matter to the citizens if the individual troops believe they are the ones waving the flag? "Just following orders" isn't valid anymore.

 

[thompal]

What would happen if, say, government goes completely out of control and the citizens who've had enough say so in the most precarious of ways? That's the real question. I would like to think the Military would be on the side of the people,

Unfortunately, I think you are wrong.

Consider: a large enough group of citizens are finally pushed over the edge by some series of unConstitutional government actions (let's say: trillion dollar bailouts for wall street democratic donors, socialization of banking, auto, and healthcare/insurance). These people emphatically say "NO!" in the way that people have when their government runs amok. Pretty much like that gang of domestic terrorists/traitors/insurrectionists Jefferson/Paine/Madison/et al.

The government tells the troops: "these people are resisting the government, and are armed." They are a threat to government! The soldiers would hear only one side of this, but may see enough media coverage to know that some citizens do have guns and are unhappy with their current politicians.

I believe that the ONLY way to avoid having the military blindly following orders is to thoroughly educate them about the Constitution, especially Article I, Sec 8., and perhaps 10 USC 375:

10 U.S.C. (United States Code) 375

Sec. 375. Restriction on direct participation by military personnel:

The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment or facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel) under this chapter does not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.

 

[SavageEagle]

Unfortunately, I think you are wrong.

Consider: a large enough group of citizens are finally pushed over the edge by some series of unConstitutional government actions (let's say: trillion dollar bailouts for wall street democratic donors, socialization of banking, auto, and healthcare/insurance). These people emphatically say "NO!" in the way that people have when their government runs amok. Pretty much like that gang of domestic terrorists/traitors/insurrectionists Jefferson/Paine/Madison/et al.

The government tells the troops: "these people are resisting the government, and are armed." They are a threat to government! The soldiers would hear only one side of this, but may see enough media coverage to know that some citizens do have guns and are unhappy with their current politicians.

I believe that the ONLY way to avoid having the military blindly following orders is to thoroughly educate them about the Constitution, especially Article I, Sec 8., and perhaps 10 USC 375:

10 U.S.C. (United States Code) 375

Sec. 375. Restriction on direct participation by military personnel:

The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment or facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel) under this chapter does not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.

Tread carefully here my friend. Most of us are prepared or preparing for just such an event. But to say that a good majority would blindly follow orders to shoot that mob because they don't know the USC and Constitution is a bit... over the top. Most NCO's will know this stuff and I know of a few that would willfully disobey such orders. They know it's not their place, but for the local LE to quell such a thing. Only when the populace were to shoot at the soldiers could they do anything.

I hope you're wrong, but we should all be prepared if you're right.

 

[Ogre]

You are aaaaaaaaaaay out of your lane here.
For over 20 years I was taught NOT to blindly follow orders. You have NO idea of what you are talking about.
I'm too pissed to keep typing since it seems to be a lot more knowledgeable people around here.

easy cheif, no need to get your panties in a wad. I was simply going on what friends and relatives have told me about their military experience. One likened bootcamp to being brainwashed, his words, not mine. I understand why they do it, seems you would need this type of training to face the real possibility of certain death in certain circumstances? . Once you read my responce, sit back, take a deep breath, and realax. Remember, this is just a conversation here, no need to raise your blood pressure...

 

[trnsplntfrmohio]

lol @ people who think there would be a large amount of military and police that would refuse to go along with something along this lines.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

Can any military memebers here give a personal account of when you directly disobeyed and order. I was in the military for 6 years and I made E6 and I can't. Yes there were some questionable orders that I got and I did infact question them after the fact but when push came to shove I usually followed orders.

I was ordered by a Deputy Joint Chief of Staff Colonel to allow him into my COMSTA (Communications Station). He said that orders authorizing him were sent prior to his visit, and me, being the lone sailor on duty, didn't have call to resist him. I called the emergency number for my Intel Officer and refused the Colonel access even to the ante-room for our comms suite. My military career, however short it would be, flashed before my eyes as I was an E-3 refusing an O-6 permission to enter.

I, as nightwatch supervisor, was ordered to monitor a certain comms net that we were legally restricted from monitoring by Congress. We refused. Higher-ups over-ruled us, but we refused, and the job was given to another INTEL unit.

While scanning radio freqs off the coast of San Diego to keep up profiency, and because we were bored, we stumbled on a cellular freq where we discovered an Admiral on his cell phone in him limo talking with another Admiral on land about an active classified program that was ongoing. We filed a report with the particulars with the ship's INTEL officer who told us to "just leave it." We knew that if we "just left it" that, if we found it, someone else could find it. My LT. decided to push the issue, forwarded the report to the appropriate alphabet agency. We got a report back a few days later, along with a reprimand for my LT., saying that "He's an Admiral. If he wants to discuss classified info over an "open line", he's entitled to. No further action."

There are more examples, but three are enough to answer your question.

 

[WWIIIDefender]

I was ordered by a Deputy Joint Chief of Staff Colonel to allow him into my COMSTA (Communications Station). He said that orders authorizing him were sent prior to his visit, and me, being the lone sailor on duty, didn't have call to resist him. I called the emergency number for my Intel Officer and refused the Colonel access even to the ante-room for our comms suite. My military career, however short it would be, flashed before my eyes as I was an E-3 refusing an O-6 permission to enter.

I, as nightwatch supervisor, was ordered to monitor a certain comms net that we were legally restricted from monitoring by Congress. We refused. Higher-ups over-ruled us, but we refused, and the job was given to another INTEL unit.

While scanning radio freqs off the coast of San Diego to keep up profiency, and because we were bored, we stumbled on a cellular freq where we discovered an Admiral on his cell phone in him limo talking with another Admiral on land about an active classified program that was ongoing. We filed a report with the particulars with the ship's INTEL officer who told us to "just leave it." We knew that if we "just left it" that, if we found it, someone else could find it. My LT. decided to push the issue, forwarded the report to the appropriate alphabet agency. We got a report back a few days later, along with a reprimand for my LT., saying that "He's an Admiral. If he wants to discuss classified info over an "open line", he's entitled to. No further action."

There are more examples, but three are enough to answer your question.

Thanks and good job!