Military buget cut proposals would take US to 1940 troop levels.

[Trooper]

It's a new world, a knowledgable public is much more important than having 'warriors'. A computer virus can do more damage to a countries infrastructure than any number of 'warriors'

But once the technology is taken out you are back to being like it was the early 1800s.

 

[arthrimus]

We have a different world to consider when talking about the existence of a standing army. The world is a much smaller place now than it used to be so our preparedness must reflect that reality. Now, current and recent past thinking has said that a large Active military force is the answer. To a degree that thinking has proved helpful in our most recent engagements because we don't have to spend long periods of time to bring in large numbers of new recruits and equipment to enable us to project force.

How do we solve the problem of needing rapid projection of force while still reducing our military spending? I've often wondered if there should be a greater integration of the Reserves into the Active Duty. The National Guard is under the authority of the States and should remain that way so we leave them alone. What would the viability be of creating Reserve units to serve alongside active units that draw from the local populations near Stateside Bases? These Reserve Personnel would still maintain training standards as they already do but in the event of a rapid activation they would already be connected to an Active unit. Overseas locations would still have to be manned by Active Duty personnel but temporary assignments of Reserve and Guard units to these locations can provide experience and keep up manning. Afghanistan and Iraq have already proven that the Reserves and National Guard can perform at least the same level or even above the levels of their Active Duty counterparts.

I don't know...I think I need more time to think about how it could work...



It's not just current decision makers at fault here. It's a tradition of policies that have created this acquisition nightmare.

You guys seem to neglect the fact that the technology that makes this world so much smaller these days is available to both sides of a hypothetical war, and we have the best in the world. Anyone who seriously thinks that China could move a 20 million man force onto our soil with a vastly outnumbered and technologically inferior fleet of aircraft and ships is insane. In this scenario where the Chinese are invading us, where is our Navy? Where is our Airforce? Both of which are the largest and most technologically advanced on the planet?

Technology ensures that in a conventional world war, the earth will be just as small as it's ever been.

 

[Trooper]

You guys seem to neglect the fact that the technology that makes this world so much smaller these days is available to both sides of a hypothetical war, and we have the best in the world. Anyone who seriously thinks that China could move a 20 million man force onto our soil with a vastly outnumbered and technologically inferior fleet of aircraft and ships is insane. In this scenario where the Chinese are invading us, where is our Navy? Where is our Airforce? Both of which are the largest and most technologically advanced on the planet?

Technology ensures that in a conventional world war, the earth will be just as small as it's ever been.

We do not have a large Navy. It may be good but the Chinese would just throw thousands of freighters at us. They could simply out number us.

We can not even stop Mexicans from coming into the country.

 

[arthrimus]

We do not have a large Navy. It may be good but the Chinese would just throw thousands of freighters at us. They could simply out number us.

We can not even stop Mexicans from coming into the country.

We do in fact have the largest Navy on the planet by an enormous margin. It was already posted up-thread that our Navy is larger than the next 13 largest navies combined. The only way we're not the largest is maybe if you count civilian freighters which are poorly suited for combat conditions and would be very poorly defended.

As for the bit about Mexicans, you can't seriously think that is a valid point in this argument. A couple hundred thousand Mexicans sneaking across our vast southern border in a years time is in no way pertinent to the discussion of moving 20 million military troops by air and sea in a military action.

 

[Kutnupe14]

We do not have a large Navy. It may be good but the Chinese would just throw thousands of freighters at us. They could simply out number us.

We can not even stop Mexicans from coming into the country.

Not sure if srs, or just bad at telling jokes.

 

[Trooper]

We do in fact have the largest Navy on the planet by an enormous margin. It was already posted up-thread that our Navy is larger than the next 13 largest navies combined. The only way we're not the largest is maybe if you count civilian freighters which are poorly suited for combat conditions and would be very poorly defended.

As for the bit about Mexicans, you can't seriously think that is a valid point in this argument. A couple hundred thousand Mexicans sneaking across our vast southern border in a years time is in no way pertinent to the discussion of moving 20 million military troops by air and sea in a military action.

All the Chinese would have to do is walk their troops across our borders.

We need five times the carriers that we have. And over 20 times the number of fighter aircraft. We need a 15 million man army. That is a reasonable size.

We need kids trained in marital arts in grade school to include edged weapons. Then moved into firearms in high school. Every kid needs to be qualified as an EMT (Basic first aid these days).

This might get us close to the level of training that the Chinese have as their kids study Kung Fu and their military is heavily seeded with special operations personnel. Chinese is doing a better job of creating a society of warriors than we are.

 

[cobber]

All the Chinese would have to do is walk their troops across our borders.

We need five times the carriers that we have. And over 20 times the number of fighter aircraft. We need a 15 million man army. That is a reasonable size.

We need kids trained in marital arts in grade school to include edged weapons. Then moved into firearms in high school. Every kid needs to be qualified as an EMT (Basic first aid these days).

This might get us close to the level of training that the Chinese have as their kids study Kung Fu and their military is heavily seeded with special operations personnel. Chinese is doing a better job of creating a society of warriors than we are.

Your estimation of Chinese youngsters is patently ridiculous. Unless you're talking about Xinjiang people attacking innocent bystanders in train stations.

 

[Kutnupe14]

All the Chinese would have to do is walk their troops across our borders.

We need five times the carriers that we have. And over 20 times the number of fighter aircraft. We need a 15 million man army. That is a reasonable size.

We need kids trained in marital arts in grade school to include edged weapons. Then moved into firearms in high school. Every kid needs to be qualified as an EMT (Basic first aid these days).

This might get us close to the level of training that the Chinese have as their kids study Kung Fu and their military is heavily seeded with special operations personnel. Chinese is doing a better job of creating a society of warriors than we are.

Are you kidding me? China isn't better at training warrior. The better warrior is the one that fights. When the U.S. first entered WW2, we got our collective butts handed to us by the wehrmacht, who at that point had been fighting for several years. Americans don't have a taste for blood, but we do know what war looks like. China, on the other hand, knows what war games look like. The last legit mobilization for China was when, the Korean War? And most of those guys were battle hardened from WW2 and the Mao/Chang war.... and we still beat them off.
Mano a mano, China is no match. The logistics alone (crossing an ocean, supplying a huge army) make any idea of a Chinese invasion epically ridiculous.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Your estimation of Chinese youngsters is patently ridiculous. Unless you're talking about Xinjiang people attacking innocent bystanders in train stations.

No one will ever accuse Trooper of being brilliant military tactician. Alexander, Julius, Zukov, Monty, Napoleon, Rommel, Patton.... your lineage is safe, lol.

 

[Trooper]

Are you kidding me? China isn't better at training warrior. The better warrior is the one that fights. When the U.S. first entered WW2, we got our collective butts handed to us by the wehrmacht, who at that point had been fighting for several years. Americans don't have a taste for blood, but we do know what war looks like. China, on the other hand, knows what war games look like. The last legit mobilization for China was when, the Korean War? And most of those guys were battle hardened from WW2 and the Mao/Chang war.... and we still beat them off.
Mano a mano, China is no match. The logistics alone (crossing an ocean, supplying a huge army) make any idea of a Chinese invasion epically ridiculous.

Then why is China sending colonists to Africa? They are moving out of China in numbers that we have never seen before.

And I do not see the Chinese as the biggest threat. The Islamist movement is far more aggressive and they are already on US soil.

Basically we are in the process being stripped of super power status. The Chinese will replace us in the role. The Islamists (a political ideology that has little to do with the religion) replaced the Soviet Union as a super power. The US will be the battleground over which they fight.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Then why is China sending colonists to Africa? They are moving out of China in numbers that we have never seen before.

And I do not see the Chinese as the biggest threat. The Islamist movement is far more aggressive and they are already on US soil.

Basically we are in the process being stripped of super power status. The Chinese will replace us in the role. The Islamists (a political ideology that has little to do with the religion) replaced the Soviet Union as a super power. The US will be the battleground over which they fight.

China is sending people people to Africa because, I'm assuming, Africans want them there. No skin of my teeth. I've seen "Blackhawk Down," they can knock themselves out.

 

[Trooper]

There is a war coming and the US will be the battleground. We are too weak, our people idiots and fools, to fight. Having a gun is not enough. It is going to take a very tough people to survive. We will be fighting two forces who both want us under their control. We no longer have the money, we are broke. And our will to be a free people is gone. Most in the nation would rather be slaves then free.

 

[Kutnupe14]

There is a war coming and the US will be the battleground. We are too weak, our people idiots and fools, to fight. Having a gun is not enough. It is going to take a very tough people to survive. We will be fighting two forces who both want us under their control. We no longer have the money, we are broke. And our will to be a free people is gone. Most in the nation would rather be slaves then free.

I can't predict the future, but the U.S. being targeted, for invasion, by a foreign power is extremely difficult to comprehend. Any nation, that attempts it, will by default ruin themselves, not only militarily, but economically as well. If it ever did happen, the most powerful nation that stayed OUT of the hostilities would be top dawg when it was all over.

 

[cobber]

Then why is China sending colonists to Africa? They are moving out of China in numbers that we have never seen before.

And I do not see the Chinese as the biggest threat. The Islamist movement is far more aggressive and they are already on US soil.

Basically we are in the process being stripped of super power status. The Chinese will replace us in the role. The Islamists (a political ideology that has little to do with the religion) replaced the Soviet Union as a super power. The US will be the battleground over which they fight.

If you lived in China, you would want to leave too. Colonists in Africa? Link?

The US is still the predominant world military power. The situation was probably worse under Jimmy Carter. Unlike Reagan's day, the problems facing us today aren't so easily addressed by maintaining a larger military.

That being said, I agree that the A-10 should stay.

There is a war coming and the US will be the battleground. We are too weak, our people idiots and fools, to fight. Having a gun is not enough. It is going to take a very tough people to survive. We will be fighting two forces who both want us under their control. We no longer have the money, we are broke. And our will to be a free people is gone. Most in the nation would rather be slaves then free.

Baden-Powell thought the same of British youth after the Boer War. Probably people have thought along these lines since the dawn of time. The ancient ones were more suited toward martial endeavors, and the youth were effeminate and soft. I think even Aristophenes said this of the Athenians way back when.

I can't predict the future, but the U.S. being targeted, for invasion, by a foreign power is extremely difficult to comprehend. Any nation, that attempts it, will by default ruin themselves, not only militarily, but economically as well. If it ever did happen, the most powerful nation that stayed OUT of the hostilities would be top dawg when it was all over.

While the Israelis are justifiably worried, a nuclear Iran will attract attention from Moscow. Just as China won't want Pakistan (or India) getting too strong. Everyone has one of these neighbors next door.

 

[Trooper]

If you lived in China, you would want to leave too. Colonists in Africa? Link?

The US is still the predominant world military power. The situation was probably worse under Jimmy Carter. Unlike Reagan's day, the problems facing us today aren't so easily addressed by maintaining a larger military.

That being said, I agree that the A-10 should stay.

In ten years we will sell off our planes and ship to pay national debt. China owns most of that debt thus will get our assets.

As China and the Islamists are the new superpowers, it is only logical that they will fight over US territory as it is a big prize.
We no longer have the will to fight. And even less will to be free. No one in America will fight back.

 

[cobber]

In ten years we will sell off our planes and ship to pay national debt. China owns most of that debt thus will get our assets.

As China and the Islamists are the new superpowers, it is only logical that they will fight over US territory as it is a big prize.
We no longer have the will to fight. And even less will to be free. No one in America will fight back.

If it comes to that, China will defeat the Islamists. They won't have any compunction about massive military action if necessary. And they don't play PC.

 

[funeralweb]

Most in the nation would rather be slaves and alive than risk losing their own lives for freedom.

I agree with you and then some.

 

[Kutnupe14]

In ten years we will sell off our planes and ship to pay national debt. China owns most of that debt thus will get our assets.

As China and the Islamists are the new superpowers, it is only logical that they will fight over US territory as it is a big prize.
We no longer have the will to fight. And even less will to be free. No one in America will fight back.

Not in 10 years... at least as far as the Navy goes they have a massive amount of tonnage coming. You should check out all the ships that are upcoming, and already budgeted for. And this isnt even mentioning decommissioned vessels that can be called back into service.

 

[r3126]

A retired general was telling me that you just don't need the numbers of men that used to be needed. Don't get me wrong, boots on the ground still needed, just not as many thanks to the technology available now.

I don't want to start a peeing contest here because you acknowledged that "boots on the ground (are) still needed", however, name me a war or really a significant battle that "technology" has won. Battles and wars are won by the privates and PFC's standing on top of an intermediate or final objective with their bayonet fixed and the smoke still curling out of the barrel of their primary weapon. Troops employed correctly are and have been the backbone of any army since the beginning of time.

(Just the rambling thoughts of an old, retired "grunt".)

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I can't predict the future, but the U.S. being targeted, for invasion, by a foreign power is extremely difficult to comprehend. Any nation, that attempts it, will by default ruin themselves, not only militarily, but economically as well. If it ever did happen, the most powerful nation that stayed OUT of the hostilities would be top dawg when it was all over.

I don't really see how you can say this since we've been the target of an invasion for the past 30 years and have been totally unwilling to suppress or prevent it.