Make sure you can print when you buy!

[Cemetery-man]

A friend of mine asked me to go with him today to buy a handgun. He has trouble with his reading and writing abilities and wanted me to help him fill out the paperwork.

When the owner of the LGS brought the paperwork, and found out my friend couldn't print he almost panicked. I told him I would fill it out and he said in order for me to do that he would have to find 2 "non employee" witnesses who would have to watch me fill out the form and witness the signatures. Luckily a young couple volunteered to witness the event and when I was done he had my friend sign the form, then me, and then the 2 witnesses also had to sign it.

I have done this several times for this friend at this same LGS with absolutely no problems and never had to go through the witness thing until tonight. Are they getting more strict around the state concerning paperwork or has this always been standard procedure? I'm just curious so I know what to expect next time.

 

[dagibson1507]

probably more store policy than law. I dont remember reading anywhere on a transfer document you need a witness if you need an interpreter. He was just cya

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

It is unusual to me that he can't block print.

There was a story in the news a couple days ago noting how many college kids are unable to write in cursive, some due to a lack of practice and some having never been taught cursive.

 

[target64]

The 4473 states ....MUST BE COMPLETED PERSONALLY BY TRANSFEREE.
ATF Form 4473, July 2005 revision

 

[printcraft]

The 4473 states ....MUST BE COMPLETED PERSONALLY BY TRANSFEREE.
ATF Form 4473, July 2005 revision

I would "think" that this is aimed at the straw purchase.

That was not what was going on here and the FFL was attempting to
cover by providing witnesses to that effect.
Cemetery-man was simply a tool to accomplish a task (no offense your not a real tool), kind of like a seeing eye dog.

 

[CombatVet]

It is unusual to me that he can't block print.

There was a story in the news a couple days ago noting how many college kids are unable to write in cursive, some due to a lack of practice and some having never been taught cursive.

I can't read or write cursive. I moved schools when they where teaching it at the first school and the next school didn't require you to use it on all home work so I never learned it.

OP, I would think if you are reading and writing for the guy it would be considered that you're filling the role of a translator, writing is just like a different language for some one who can't read/write.

 

[Dawall]

That is not a store policy. When you previously filled out those 4473 forms for him with no witness's the store committed a violation. I thought 3 witness's were required. Regardless, a violation was committed and that requirement was there for many years. A compliance check by ATF might have changed their store policy.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

I can't read or write cursive. I moved schools when they where teaching it at the first school and the next school didn't require you to use it on all home work so I never learned it.

Being a collector of odd facts, this piqued my interest.

What decade did you go through elementary school and where? I started mid-70's here in Indiana.

 

[pudly]

I can't read or write cursive.

Honestly, it is getting to the point where cursive is unnecessary and likely will become a skill that only few bother to learn over time. Cursive is best for long hand writing tasks, but who actually does that any more? People are far more likely to write short notes or fill in forms by hand. Longer writing is almost exclusively on computers now.

 

[JetGirl]

It is unusual to me that he can't block print.

To my knowledge, primary/elementary schools do not teach block printing any longer.
They teach D'Nealian, which goes right into cursive.

 

[Boilers]

Last night on PBS I saw this author ... our kids' generation are being instructed in some COLLEGES how to SAY HI to another HUMAN BEING and NOT use an iPhone or other. This novel kind of relates collision of all other human society BEFORE this one, and this one.

"Super Sad True Love Story" - Laura Miller - Salon.com


3 days ago

Beloit College Mindset List says Class of 2014 can't write cursive - CSMonitor.com

Beloit College Mindset List says Class of 2014 can't write cursive

My kids almost fall into that category. They do not emphasize it at all.

 

[Serial Crusher]

I refuse to write cursive on general principle after all the sentences I had to write...

 

[Fishersjohn48]

Flame me if you want but I am haveing a hard time with the fact that someone who is not capable of learning to read or write should be handling weapons. I am trying to run through the scenarios in my head what the circumstances would be but am coming up empty. Dyslexia comes to mind as a possible reason but how does that effect the persons ability to distinguish a target? Maybe there is no correlation, I don't know. Obviously this person is not reading the owners manual, laws concerning gun ownership, ammunition packages, etc etc.

 

[JetGirl]

Flame me if you want but I am haveing a hard time with the fact that someone who is not capable of learning to read or write should be handling weapons. I am trying to run through the scenarios in my head what the circumstances would be but am coming up empty.

I'm thinking you don't know that many elderly people.
I've met lots who never were afforded the opportunity to go to school because they had to start working as children to help support their families...and just never stopped. Some think it's too late to teach an old dog new tricks and they don't want to bother to learn this late in the game...but that doesn't mean they should be any less able to protect themselves.
The 2nd Amendment doesn't say "Shall not be infringed unless you can't read."
No matter what age.

 

[Jay]

The 2nd Amendment doesn't say "Shall not be infringed unless you can't read."
No matter what age.

NOT a difficult concept to grasp........ repped Well, I tried to rep you but have to reload first..... sounds like someone else I know..... pffft

 

[Fishersjohn48]

Well I know quite a few elderly people and candidly, all of them at one time could read and write. Those that can't have reasons like poor eye sight or their hands shake too much to be able to write, both of which would be a real problem with handling a weapon. You are absolutly right about they have the right to defend themselves and that is not what I am questioning. There may be other very legitamate reasons but as I said I was coming up empty. Feel free to Continue to enlighten me.

 

[Hoosier8]

Well I know quite a few elderly people and candidly, all of them at one time could read and write. Those that can't have reasons like poor eye sight or their hands shake too much to be able to write, both of which would be a real problem with handling a weapon. You are absolutly right about they have the right to defend themselves and that is not what I am questioning. There may be other very legitamate reasons but as I said I was coming up empty. Feel free to enlighten me.

There are also people that have trouble being able to read due to other problems that do not effect regular sight. Some have found that colored lenses allow the writing not to shift in front of their eyes on a page. It seems to be relegated to characters on pages.

 

[JetGirl]

Feel free to enlighten me.

I thought that's what I just did.

Well, I tried to rep you but have to reload first..... sounds like someone else I know..... pffft

It's the thought that counts. Thanks.

 

[Fishersjohn48]

Well I know quite a few elderly people and candidly, all of them at one time could read and write. Those that can't have reasons like poor eye sight or their hands shake too much to be able to write, both of which would be a real problem with handling a weapon. You are absolutly right about they have the right to defend themselves and that is not what I am questioning. There may be other very legitamate reasons but as I said I was coming up empty. Feel free to Continue to enlighten me.

There that makes it better.

 

[451_Detonics]

Hope these kids learn block at some time if they plan on joining the military...always forms to be filled out at the arms room, motor pool, etc.