LTCH question

[tetsujin79]

As a former crook county tax rapee, er, payer, the whole FOID was just another tax rip-off. What I don't get is the LTCH. I don't understand that if you can pass legal muster from the fed.gov to buy a gun, why would you need to jump through State hoops to carry?

I mean, we all know that every state quickly and dutifully updates their records (mental/criminal) with the fed.gov...

Anybody?

 

[possum_128]

Same as everywhere that reguires it, money and control of people, nuff said. But at least you have been and can carry and we can have for life, it's still better that that commie state to the west that you lived in, now isn't it?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

What I don't get is the LTCH. I don't understand that if you can pass legal muster from the fed.gov to buy a gun, why would you need to jump through State hoops to carry?

You want the whole history (wherein Kirk plays history professor) or you want the 10 second answer?

 

[BIGnTall83]

You want the whole history (wherein Kirk plays history professor) or you want the 10 second answer?

 

[tetsujin79]

You want the whole history (wherein Kirk plays history professor) or you want the 10 second answer?

I'd love all the background, but the 10 second would be great. But if there's a link to some reading, I'll gladly follow it.

I should have asked was there a court case that happened and the LTCH was the result...

 

[brotherbill3]

Second the vote for full answer or link to it. I've seen Kirk play out part of it here and there. - it could almost be a 'legendary sticky' you might say.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Ok then. The license is about controlling the population. If a license is given, then it can be taken away. No license=no control.

I'll do it timeline style.

1816: Statehood.

1820: Indiana prohibits concealed carry except if travelling.

1935: Indiana Adopts part of one of the model statutes being shopped about in the state capitols in order to combat "gangsterism". Just as Prohibition is repealed and crime flatlines, Indiana adopts part of the Uniform Firearms Act which requires a license to carry a handgun. This license is treated as a "may issue" controlled by the Police Chief or Sheriff.

1958: Indiana Supreme Court upholds the constitutionality of the license to carry handgun in Matthews.

1982: Indiana Court of Appeals holds that license must be "shall issue" in Schubert v. Debard.

1996: Rex Early campaigns to abolish the license to carry a handgun (LTCH, or Larry). Kirk Freeman, his one and only campaign volunteer, is unsuccessful in his efforts to defeat Goldsmith.

There is talk of abolishing the Larry, but while we now made it a lifetime license and have ended many restrictions (Speedway concealed carry ban, parks, etc.) the LTCH is here to stay for a while.

Too many people derive their power and personhood from it. Just talk to gun owners at the gun shop and understand their glee in having a piece of paper that calls them a "good guy". I don't see an abolition movement gaining any significant momentum.

 

[ATM]

I wish to be free of this whole Larry infringement.

Although it is fairly easy to purchase for oneself this exception to the state handgun carry restriction, I cannot but loathe it completely and hold the requirement of such in utter contempt.

 

[Chesh97]

I just wish the Feds went back to recognizing Indiana's LTCH as sufficeint for purposes of NICS. It was so nice being able to walk in, fill out form, present LTCH and walk out the door. No call-in needed, and no possibilities of delays.

 

[tetsujin79]

Ok then. The license is about controlling the population. If a license is given, then it can be taken away. No license=no control.

I'll do it timeline style.

1816: Statehood.

1820: Indiana prohibits concealed carry except if travelling.

1935: Indiana Adopts part of one of the model statutes being shopped about in the state capitols in order to combat "gangsterism". Just as Prohibition is repealed and crime flatlines, Indiana adopts part of the Uniform Firearms Act which requires a license to carry a handgun. This license is treated as a "may issue" controlled by the Police Chief or Sheriff.

1958: Indiana Supreme Court upholds the constitutionality of the license to carry handgun in Matthews.

1982: Indiana Court of Appeals holds that license must be "shall issue" in Schubert v. Debard.

1996: Rex Early campaigns to abolish the license to carry a handgun (LTCH, or Larry). Kirk Freeman, his one and only campaign volunteer, is unsuccessful in his efforts to defeat Goldsmith.

There is talk of abolishing the Larry, but while we now made it a lifetime license and have ended many restrictions (Speedway concealed carry ban, parks, etc.) the LTCH is here to stay for a while.

Too many people derive their power and personhood from it. Just talk to gun owners at the gun shop and understand their glee in having a piece of paper that calls them a "good guy". I don't see an abolition movement gaining any significant momentum.

Thanks!!!

 

[JasonB]

NICS Check is about a joke as it is a couple second check against some TBD list of people that really shouldn't be allowed to buy guns.

LTCH - Is true ISP Background check, electronic prints, and your donation to both the State and Local Law Enforcement...

The only LTCH Issue I have is because Indiana was one of the first "Shall Issue" states and doesn't put a "course" requirement around the LTCH not as many states actually recognize it as they do say the Utah or Florida (license/permit)...

I do think before someone is turned loose with hand cannon strapped to their belt that they should be "FORCED" to at least sit through some form of safety lecture... Actually surprised this hasn't happened yet since anyone born after 1986 has to go through DNR Hunter's Education just to buy a hunting license in Indiana.

I'm sure I'll catch hell over the last paragraph but it is common sense even if it does pose some level of restriction...

 

[tetsujin79]

I do think before someone is turned loose with hand cannon strapped to their belt that they should be "FORCED" to at least sit through some form of safety lecture... Actually surprised this hasn't happened yet since anyone born after 1986 has to go through DNR Hunter's Education just to buy a hunting license in Indiana.

I'm sure I'll catch hell over the last paragraph but it is common sense even if it does pose some level of restriction...

If you're cynical enough, a safety lecture before voting might be helpful?

I didn't know about the hunting safety, mainly because it doesn't affect me. Why just 1986 and up though, why not everyone? Which forum do I go to ask that???

 

[ATM]

...I do think before someone is turned loose with hand cannon strapped to their belt that they should be "FORCED" to at least sit through some form of safety lecture...

Your concept of Liberty is sorely lacking.

I'm sure I'll catch hell over the last paragraph but it is common sense even if it does pose some level of restriction...

Your "common sense restriction" proposal deserves nothing less.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I do think before someone is turned loose with hand cannon strapped to their belt that they should be "FORCED" to at least sit through some form of safety lecture

1. If I carry a rifle or shotgun, I do not need a license of any sort.

2. Where has mandatory training in licenses to carry handguns been of any benefit?

3. Where has Indiana's lack of a forced safety lecture been an issue? What evidence do you have that safety lectures will mitigate any problems?

4. Is not the better way to use a carrot approach in making gun training classes tax deductible?

 

[MisterChester]

I don't think training should be a requirement, however it's still a good thing to do. It only helps you.

 

[88GT]

NICS Check is about a joke as it is a couple second check against some TBD list of people that really shouldn't be allowed to buy guns.

LTCH - Is true ISP Background check, electronic prints, and your donation to both the State and Local Law Enforcement...

The only LTCH Issue I have is because Indiana was one of the first "Shall Issue" states and doesn't put a "course" requirement around the LTCH not as many states actually recognize it as they do say the Utah or Florida (license/permit)...

I do think before someone is turned loose with hand cannon strapped to their belt that they should be "FORCED" to at least sit through some form of safety lecture... Actually surprised this hasn't happened yet since anyone born after 1986 has to go through DNR Hunter's Education just to buy a hunting license in Indiana.

I'm sure I'll catch hell over the last paragraph but it is common sense even if it does pose some level of restriction...

How is it common sense to force people to sit through a safety lecture?

Are you part of that foolish crowd that thinks laws actually control behavior?

The problem with your "solution" is that you can require someone to sit in a training course and be there physically, but you can't require them to be there emotionally or to internalize the information that is being presented.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

 

[2A_Tom]

All news should be censored by the government.

You should need a permit to join a church but must take a course in comparative religion before joining the accepted church of universal tolerance.

You must take a 500 question test on gun safety, pass with a 95%, fire 97 on a range (blindfolded) and take a course in conflict resolutionin order to carry an unloaded handgun.

You must quarter and board troops upon request.

The police should be able to inspect your home, vehicles and papers upon request.

No legal representation, JUDGES will have absolute authority.

Federal law preempts all State laws.