LTCH Daycare-Child drop off/pickup

[Scutter01]

I don't believe it does. When we signed him up which was just recently the administrator told us that they receive no state or federal funding and that they don't fall under any of the requirements that state facilities do. She said they try and abide by the same guidelines but are not restricted to them because they are a ministry.

If they're required to be licensed, then I think you're incorrect. I think it's still a school. If it's not a school, I'd be interested in knowing why it doesn't fall under IC 31-27.

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

If they're required to be licensed, then I think you're incorrect. I think it's still a school. If it's not a school, I'd be interested in knowing why it doesn't fall under IC 31-27.

Just going by what we were told. As I said I will now be looking into it further to find out. I will let you all know what I find out.

 

[Scutter01]

Just going by what we were told. As I said I will now be looking into it further to find out. I will let you all know what I find out.

Please do. I'd love to see more places where people can legally carry.

 

[Mr. Habib]

Here is the exemption for church run day cares.


IC 12-17.2-2-8
Licensure exemptions
Sec. 8. The division shall exempt from licensure the following programs:
(1) A program for children enrolled in grades kindergarten through 12 that is operated by the department of education or a public or private school.
(2) A program for children who become at least three (3) years of age as of December 1 of a particular school year (as defined in IC 20-18-2-17) that is operated by the department of education or a public or private school.
(3) A nonresidential program for a child that provides child care for less than four (4) hours a day.
(4) A recreation program for children that operates for not more than ninety (90) days in a calendar year.
(5) A program whose primary purpose is to provide social, recreational, or religious activities for school age children, such as scouting, boys club, girls club, sports, or the arts.
(6) A program operated to serve migrant children that: (A) provides services for children from migrant worker families; and
(B) is operated during a single period of less than one hundred twenty (120) consecutive days during a calendar year.
(7) A child care ministry registered under IC 12-17.2-6.
(8) A child care home if the provider:
(A) does not receive regular compensation;
(B) cares only for children who are related to the provider;
(C) cares for less than six (6) children, not including children for whom the provider is a parent, stepparent, guardian, custodian, or other relative; or
(D) operates to serve migrant children.
(9) A child care program operated by a public or private secondary school that:
(A) provides day care on the school premises for children of a student or an employee of the school;
(B) complies with health, safety, and sanitation standards as determined by the division under section 4 of this chapter for child care centers or in accordance with a variance or waiver of a rule governing child care centers approved by the division under section 10 of this chapter; and
(C) substantially complies with the fire and life safety rules as determined by the state fire marshal under rules adopted by the division under section 4 of this chapter for child care centers or in accordance with a variance or waiver of a rule governing child care centers approved by the division under section 10 of this chapter.
(10) A school age child care program (commonly referred to as a latch key program) established under IC 20-26-5-2 that is operated by:
(A) the department of education;
(B) a public or private school; or
(C) a public or private organization under a written contract with:
(i) the department of education; or
(ii) a public or private school.
As added by P.L.1-1993, SEC.141. Amended by P.L.61-1993, SEC.8; P.L.136-1993, SEC.6; P.L.2-1995, SEC.50; P.L.50-2001, SEC.1; P.L.1-2005, SEC.136.

 

[cyprant]

Here is the exemption for church run day cares.


IC 12-17.2-2-8
Licensure exemptions
Sec. 8. The division shall exempt from licensure the following programs:
(1) A program for children enrolled in grades kindergarten through 12 that is operated by the department of education or a public or private school.
(2) A program for children who become at least three (3) years of age as of December 1 of a particular school year (as defined in IC 20-18-2-17) that is operated by the department of education or a public or private school.
(3) A nonresidential program for a child that provides child care for less than four (4) hours a day.
(4) A recreation program for children that operates for not more than ninety (90) days in a calendar year.
(5) A program whose primary purpose is to provide social, recreational, or religious activities for school age children, such as scouting, boys club, girls club, sports, or the arts.
(6) A program operated to serve migrant children that: (A) provides services for children from migrant worker families; and
(B) is operated during a single period of less than one hundred twenty (120) consecutive days during a calendar year.
(7) A child care ministry registered under IC 12-17.2-6.
(8) A child care home if the provider:
(A) does not receive regular compensation;
(B) cares only for children who are related to the provider;
(C) cares for less than six (6) children, not including children for whom the provider is a parent, stepparent, guardian, custodian, or other relative; or
(D) operates to serve migrant children.
(9) A child care program operated by a public or private secondary school that:
(A) provides day care on the school premises for children of a student or an employee of the school;
(B) complies with health, safety, and sanitation standards as determined by the division under section 4 of this chapter for child care centers or in accordance with a variance or waiver of a rule governing child care centers approved by the division under section 10 of this chapter; and
(C) substantially complies with the fire and life safety rules as determined by the state fire marshal under rules adopted by the division under section 4 of this chapter for child care centers or in accordance with a variance or waiver of a rule governing child care centers approved by the division under section 10 of this chapter.
(10) A school age child care program (commonly referred to as a latch key program) established under IC 20-26-5-2 that is operated by:
(A) the department of education;
(B) a public or private school; or
(C) a public or private organization under a written contract with:
(i) the department of education; or
(ii) a public or private school.
As added by P.L.1-1993, SEC.141. Amended by P.L.61-1993, SEC.8; P.L.136-1993, SEC.6; P.L.2-1995, SEC.50; P.L.50-2001, SEC.1; P.L.1-2005, SEC.136.

This is the IC for requirement of a license to run a day care or school....nothing to do with Licence to carry handguns...

 

[Scutter01]

Here is the exemption for church run day cares.

Interesting. The definition of a school specifies 12-17 OR 31-27. It seems that it's exempt under 12-17, but is it also under 31-27? Otherwise, it seems like pretty much any school (other than k-12) at a church would be exempt from the no-carry rule.

Ummm this is the IC for requirement of a license to run a day are or school....nothing to do with LTCH

We're not talking about an LTCH. We're talking about whether it's legal to carry at a church's daycare. This discussion is over what constitutes a "school".

 

[eldirector]

31-27 is for Residential Child Care.

 

[cyprant]

Ind. Code § 35-41-1-24.7 : Indiana Code - Section 35-41-1-24.7: "School property" defined

This defines school. Pretty cut and dry to me. If it looks like a school, its a school.

It does not need to be licensed to be a school.

 

[cyprant]

I really don't think its going t be legal. You may find a loop hole that's makes it sound legal, but do you want to bet your lawyer is better than yours??

Imho, there enough that points to illegal to not do it. Unless you can find a ruling on the books of this exact situation...I say no carry.

 

[Scutter01]

Ind. Code § 35-41-1-24.7 : Indiana Code - Section 35-41-1-24.7: "School property" defined

This defines school. Pretty cut and dry to me. If it looks like a school, its a school.

It does not need to be licensed to be a school.

With all due respect, I think you should go back an re-read this whole thread. You seem to be re-hashing just the very beginning of the discussion and missing the points that have already been made later in the thread. It's now looking like the OP's church daycare may be exempt.

 

[lucky4034]

My friend is a teacher and says that if you break down your gun, it is no longer considered a "firearm" and therefore can be left inside the vehichle....

can I get further clarification on whether this is correct or not?

 

[cyprant]

With all due respect, I think you should go back an re-read this whole thread. You seem to be re-hashing just the very beginning of the discussion and missing the points that have already been made later in the thread. It's now looking like the OP's church daycare may be exempt.

I agree, I did scan page 2 at first. And imI sorry forI that...But the point I am making is that it may look exempt, but I don't think it will hold up in court. I am going to back out of this one...

 

[eldirector]

My friend is a teacher and says that if you break down your gun, it is no longer considered a "firearm" and therefore can be left inside the vehichle....

can I get further clarification on whether this is correct or not?

Indiana Firearm Definition, bold added:

IC 35-47-1-5
"Firearm"
Sec. 5. "Firearm" means any weapon:

(1) that is:
(A) capable of expelling; or
(B) designed to expel; or
(2) that may readily be converted to expel;
a projectile by means of an explosion.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.3-2008, SEC.254.

I doubt a disassembled firearm is anything but still a firearm, since it can be "readily converted" by simply reassembling.

There is certainly no exemption in the "no carry at schools" statute (already posted in this thread) that would allow a disassembled firearm.

 

[ATM]

My friend is a teacher and says that if you break down your gun, it is no longer considered a "firearm" and therefore can be left inside the vehichle....

can I get further clarification on whether this is correct or not?

Not correct. I'm guessing your friend is not a law teacher.

 

[youngda9]

You can look at the Indiana website to see if they are a licensed daycare(a license status will appear when you click on the location). If they are not, since it's at a church, they are considered a "faith based ministry" and thus do not count as a "daycare" per the law...someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

https://secure.in.gov/apps/fssa/carefinder/index.html

 

[Mr. Habib]

@youngda9 I think you're spot on.





ETA: Most, if not all, day cares will post their license and or inspection records or make them available for public viewing (I believe this is a legal requirement). It might be easier to just ask them if they are licensed.

 

[lucky4034]

Indiana Firearm Definition, bold added:


I doubt a disassembled firearm is anything but still a firearm, since it can be "readily converted" by simply reassembling.

There is certainly no exemption in the "no carry at schools" statute (already posted in this thread) that would allow a disassembled firearm.

Ok... last question. And I know... I'm searching for a loophole even though this whole scenario doesn't apply to me.

Should you break down the gun and take the spring and barrel with you and leave the rest of the gun, it can no longer be assembled to shoot anything and you yourself are not carrying a gun into a school.

Not that I recommend trying that by the way... but maybe its a better alternative than nothing?

 

[lucky4034]

Not correct. I'm guessing your friend is not a law teacher.

Lol... no but he thinks he is, that is why I am curious what you guys say...

 

[traderdan]

I pastor a church,,we have a REGISTERED daycare ministry.We have had the good fortune to have the same families involved in our program for quite some time.I would encourage any parent who carries responsibly and concealed to be armed at any time.The state does not offer sufficient protection to our employees and children to be able to mandate a ban on CC to parents coming in and out.

 

[youngda9]

Ok... last question. And I know... I'm searching for a loophole even though this whole scenario doesn't apply to me.

Should you break down the gun and take the spring and barrel with you and leave the rest of the gun, it can no longer be assembled to shoot anything and you yourself are not carrying a gun into a school.

Not that I recommend trying that by the way... but maybe its a better alternative than nothing?

Legally "the gun" contains the serial number and firing mechanism IIRC. If you break down a Glock, the handle portion is considered "the gun". Even without the slide, barrel, spring, sights, and hidden Ka-Boom gremlin hiding inside.