loss rate @ 10% after 3 reloads

[jedi]

This year I started to reload for .30 carbine.
I started the year with 500 commerial .30 carbine ammo.
Of that ammo I have 452 brass cases left after of which 400 have been reloaded 3 times and the rest twice.
The missing brass is not due to loss at the range as I have a brass catcher and am getting 100% of the brass back. The lost brass has been crushed cases, split cases, or cases that are showing signs that they will fail, plus at least 5 user error ones when I was learn how to reload .30 carbine.

so its about a 10% loss of the original 500. is that good? bad?
i think i can get another 3 to 4 reloads of the current lot which means if i start with 500 I can do the entire year shooting once a month like i do now. not sure how much i will shoot this rifle next year but do want to now how much ammo i should have on hand for brass purposes to ensure i can shot it.

 

[IndyGunworks]

Better than mine. I loose about 15 percent EVERY loading at least. Discounting my super expensive brass which I fire single shot through a bolt gun.

 

[warthog]

Depends on the brand of brass. Some brass is better than other brass. For instance for Starine brass, this would be horrendous. I can get a good 10 reloads from Starline before needing to swage the primer pocket to get it tightened up enough to hold a primer again and likely be able to load it another five times before it is totally spent. Privi Partisan brass I might get two or three loadings before it splits or is otherwise useless. Other brads are all in between these two for me.

The biggest factor is how much you work the brass. Meaning how wide do you bell the mouth to put in the new bullet then crimp it back into place. If this is done to the "extreme" or if you open it up more than is really needed then crimp it back down again over and over, it is going to split or crack much faster than if you barely open it at all. Like any metal, the less you bend it back and forth, the longer it will last before it breaks.

 

[shibumiseeker]

As was said, it's pretty variable, especially out of a semiauto. What you'll find is the ones that last will last longer. When I am doing brass life tests, a small percentage fail within the first few loads, then the rest go on to a lopsided bell curve as far as life goes.

There is a HUGE difference in brass quality among manufacturers, and even among lots. Most manufacturers only need the brass to last once. When you buy quality brass intended for reloading you tend to get longer life.

Out of five hundred rifle brass I might lose one or two to screw ups in the process depending on what I am loading, especially if it is a new workup.

 

[jedi]

I started with 500 rds of aguila ammo btw.

 

[warthog]

If you are serious about wanting to reload, try some Starline brass. It isn't that expensive when you figure how well it holds up and how many reloads you get from each piece. Usually it's the primer pocket that winds up wearing out, as in becoming too loose to hold the primer, rather than the brass itself splitting or otherwise failing. As for the quality of Aguila, I am afraid I have no data for it as I rarely come across it either in range brass I buy or ammo I might buy for myself except for .22's. I love their .22 ammo. Straight wall cartridges though tend to be longer lasting than necked because the brass isn't worked as much unless you are loading for a specific bolt action rifle. This is because you don't full length size a necked case in this instance but even doing only neck sizing a necked case tends to split faster than a straight walled one.

If you think you aren't getting the most out of your brass, try readjusting you flaring die. You want to make it so the bullet barely slips into the case without shaving any of it off or rolling the lip of the case. This means you are working the brass as little as possible therefore it will last as long as it is able. The key is always to work the brass as little as you can manage to work it and still get your rounds loaded. This will change with experience too, as you get better, you will need less flaring to get the bullet seated properly because you will have that feel for things.

 

[djones]

I'm no expert but maybe you should anneal the case mouth to soften the metal in that area. This will help prevent splitting due to overworking during the flairing, bullet seating, crimping and firing steps.

Good luck!

 

[shibumiseeker]

I'm no expert but maybe you should anneal the case mouth to soften the metal in that area. This will help prevent splitting due to overworking during the flairing, bullet seating, crimping and firing steps.

Good luck!

Apparently it doesn't.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ing/140337-new-brass-life-test-annealing.html

 

[red_zr24x4]

I'm no expert but maybe you should anneal the case mouth to soften the metal in that area. This will help prevent splitting due to overworking during the flairing, bullet seating, crimping and firing steps.

Good luck!

I've been reloading .30-06 (M1 Garand) brass since '95 and have never annealed it. I don't load anywhere near max, keep my bell to a minimum, and can probably count on one hand how many cases I have had the neck split.

 

[Broom_jm]

Brass life observations for a normal semi-auto pistol case, or for common bottle-necked rifle cases, do not really apply to the rather unique 30 Carbine case. It is shaped and function rather like a high-pressure semi-auto pistol case, but is shot out of a rifle.

Unlike most rifle cases, the case length for a 30 Carbine is critical. A bottle-necked case can be trimmed .020" or more short of SAMMI max and still be perfectly serviceable. Since the 30 Carbine headspaces on the mouth, brass that is just .010" short can result in light primer strikes. Also, brass that is too long will result in a locked up action.

Two things that contribute significantly to brass life for 30 Carbine cases are how "hot" the load is and the method you're using to resize the cases. If your cases are frequently too long, after resizing, it may be that the inside of the case neck is not lubed sufficiently. I discovered that I could greatly reduce the number of cases I have to trim by lubing the inside of the case necks. Keep in mind that when cases stretch during the resizing process, that length has to come from somewhere...and it's usually from just in front of the web, gradually creating an incipient headcase separation. By lubing the case necks there is less friction when the expander ball comes out, minimizing stretch and increasing case life.

With all of that being said, I would be surprised to get more than 5-10 firings, on average, from a batch of 30 Carbine brass. Still, with the cost of commercial 30 Carbine ammo these days, it is WELL worth the effort!

ETA: I don't know if there is a safe way to anneal 30 Carbine brass, as the mouth of the case just isn't that far removed from the head, which must NOT be softened! The use of a Lyman M die or perhaps some kind of neck-sizing die might be effective, but I have not heard of anyone doing that, to date. The real question there is whether or not cases would feed consistently w/o the body of the brass being sized back down.

 

[lon]

...before needing to swage the primer pocket to get it tightened up ...

How do you do that?

 

[Leo]

The load pressure is a big factor on brass life. I have used multiple boxes of .38 spl wadcutter (very light crimp) target loads 18 times before getting neck splits. I have 1970's vintage .45acp military (WCC) brass that has been reloaded with light target loads so many times over the last 20 years the head stamp is almost worn smooth. High pressure rifle cases, especially those used in a semi auto tend to have failure far sooner than that. The same case that is very carefully (minimally) resized and shot in a minimum spec chambered bolt action has greater life.

Another factor is brass alloy, some are a lot softer or a lot harder than the average. Harder is better until it becomes so brittle it stress cracks easily.

Lots of variables. For .30 carbine, esp with FMJ projectiles, use only enough crimp to close the case mouth and you will get a little longer case life. I only had a carbine for a few years, and I do not remember case life being that short. I would consider at least 5 reloads to be expected life in the carbine, more if you are lucky. I have tried aguila brass in the .223, I was not impressed, I think it is a lower quality alloy.

 

[bigerik]

I don't load for the carbine but if u aneal cases in a pan of water this keeps heads cool. Just don't get them to hot.

 

[lon]

... before needing to swage the primer pocket to get it tightened up enough to hold a primer again ....

How do you swage a primer pocket?
Serious question.

 

[IndyGunworks]

Depends on the brand of brass. Some brass is better than other brass. For instance for Starine brass, this would be horrendous. I can get a good 10 reloads from Starline before needing to swage the primer pocket to get it tightened up enough to hold a primer again and likely be able to load it another five times before it is totally spent. Privi Partisan brass I might get two or three loadings before it splits or is otherwise useless. Other brads are all in between these two for me.

The biggest factor is how much you work the brass. Meaning how wide do you bell the mouth to put in the new bullet then crimp it back into place. If this is done to the "extreme" or if you open it up more than is really needed then crimp it back down again over and over, it is going to split or crack much faster than if you barely open it at all. Like any metal, the less you bend it back and forth, the longer it will last before it breaks.

Care to share you secret on swaging the primer pocket?

 

[Broom_jm]

I think Warthog may have misspoke, which happens to all of us, from time to time.

Suffice to say that if you have cases where the primer pocket is too LOOSE, and not too tight, there is no swaging technique to tighten them up...at least, none that this old fat guy has ever heard of!

Perhaps more to the point...if you've shot cases enough times to loosen up the primer pocket, it's probably a good idea to toss 'em in the recycling bucket, anyway.

 

[Leo]

I have heard of people who "tighten" the primer pocket by centering an unpimed case on a ball bearing about the size of the case diameter and smacking the inside of the case head with a punch and hammer. The little lip raised will hold a primer from falling out, but it still leaks a lot of gas around the primer. I would not bother with it. My motto with brass, (and food left for too long in the refridgerator) "When in doubt, throw it out"

I agree with broom_jm......toss 'em.