License to carry denied

[beararms1776]

Here is a an excellent time for a true INGO learning experience. If the OP would be so kind as to provide a case number or full name and be willing to have the case posted here, I'd be willing to pay for the report. We could then set up a mock trial with INGO members as representatives and Kirk as commissioner. I'll post the case report and then we can argue the case. After our conclusion ill post the court findings. Afterwards we'll discuss. Then we will see if stealing a box is all it was, who the victim was, why the cops were compelled to make the arrest, what the evidence was, and why a judge/jury felt it warranted a conversion charge.

This is a cool idea. Can I present my case of a friend?

 

[beararms1776]

Here is a an excellent time for a true INGO learning experience. If the OP would be so kind as to provide a case number or full name and be willing to have the case posted here, I'd be willing to pay for the report. We could then set up a mock trial with INGO members as representatives and Kirk as commissioner. I'll post the case report and then we can argue the case. After our conclusion ill post the court findings. Afterwards we'll discuss. Then we will see if stealing a box is all it was, who the victim was, why the cops were compelled to make the arrest, what the evidence was, and why a judge/jury felt it warranted a conversion charge.

This is a cool idea. Can I present my case of a friend?

 

[Uncle Lee]

I agree with "get a lawyer".
It is the best way to get the correct answer.
You can't go before a board and say "this person on the internet said.......".


This means that you can't go dumpster diving any more?
I thought that when something was put in the trash that it belonged to the public.

 

[wally05]

Some of you guys are speculating too much. I just go by off what she says. You're not here to pick apart a story. Provide the help and move on. This isn't officer.com... you're innocent until proven guilty here.

 

[mainjet]

Some of you guys are speculating too much. I just go by off what she says. You're not here to pick apart a story. Provide the help and move on. This isn't officer.com... you're innocent until proven guilty here.

This isn't gullible.com either

If someone comes here and says "help me, I can't get X because I did X" then I think we have a right to questions the details so that we can give an appropriate answer.

 

[wally05]

This isn't gullible.com either

If someone comes here and says "help me, I can't get X because I did X" then I think we have a right to questions the details so that we can give an appropriate answer.

Just answer the best you can with the details they'll give you. Sitting here and questioning the story for 40 pages of a thread doesn't do any good. If you're not convinced what they are saying is true, then just don't answer and move on. My opinion from being someone who use to be active on officer.com. The threads would ALWAYS go south in a few pages.

Also, maybe what they gave you was true and you just scared away another possible INGO member.

 

[mainjet]

Just answer the best you can with the details they'll give you. Sitting here and questioning the story for 40 pages of a thread doesn't do any good. If you're not convinced what they are saying is true, then just don't answer and move on.

Are you making this a rule?

 

[Somemedic]

Actually there are many company's that sell their cardboard products. We deal with these issues fairly often. People run around to closed businesses in the night helping themselves to what ever they want just because it is accessible. That is theft plain and simple.

Jesus.... the punishment should fit the crime.

Stealing a compacted 1500lbs bail of cardboard is theft. Taking "a cardboard box" out of a dumpster surely doesn't feel like a FELONY to me.

Want us to put on burkas and cut off her hands?

 

[IndyDave1776]

Fair question. Don't address it if you don't understand why your analysis is wrong.

Prosecutor has nothing to do with the loss of rights.

He didn't write the law, he didn't enforce the prohibition. He charged the offender.

But blame him anyway if that makes you feel better.

And ignore the fact that the legislature wrote the law, which the prosecutor doesn't enforce. And that the BATFE, which is also not the prosecutor, can charge a felon with a federal offense for possessing a weapon.

You're right by gum, it's the prosecutor's fault. My bad.

OK, since you seem to have missed my point, one of the prosecutor's most important responsibilities is to determine which incidents warrant criminal charges, and if so which charges. Case in point, if I were to walk on someone elses property, authorized or not, and left with mud on my shoes, I am removing soil which belongs to the property owner without specific authorization to do so. That technically is theft, especially in state which does not differentiate theft by value of the property removed. If I were charged for that, would you not say that the prosecutor is being a moron?

If you pay attention, you will see that a prosecutor has sole discretion in which cases to pursue and which ones not to pursue with no oversight other than a judge potentially throwing out a case he runs with. Most laws as written are necessarily quite broad and this is the person who gets to make the decision. Do you really think the legislature should write the law against theft is such a way as to include an itemized list of chargeable items and/or a list of exceptions? A bad prosecutor is far more dangerous than a bad law since the prosecutor is the one who gets to make the final decision on whether or not you get charged, once again, with virtually no oversight.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Kinda looks like one from where I'm sittin'

Look at the previous post. That is a specific response. (I do change my mind on occasion.)

 

[lon]

Look at the previous post. That is a specific response. (I do change my mind on occasion.)

just breakin' balls...carry on

 

[LoneWolf2554]

That is a stupid thing to be charged with! Who cares that much about an emtpy box?

 

[Hayseed_40]

That is a stupid thing to be charged with! Who cares that much about an emtpy box?

Next time you have a bunch of books to carry, let's see how much you care about an empty box...

 

[readlorey]

I really need to get out to the range....when I can find the time. Damn work expects me to come to work and do stuff. WTH?

 

[LoneWolf2554]

Next time you have a bunch of books to carry, let's see how much you care about an empty box...

I was meaning who takes the time to charge someone for taking an empty box.

 

[cobber]

OK, since you seem to have missed my point, one of the prosecutor's most important responsibilities is to determine which incidents warrant criminal charges, and if so which charges. Case in point, if I were to walk on someone elses property, authorized or not, and left with mud on my shoes, I am removing soil which belongs to the property owner without specific authorization to do so. That technically is theft, especially in state which does not differentiate theft by value of the property removed. If I were charged for that, would you not say that the prosecutor is being a moron?

If you pay attention, you will see that a prosecutor has sole discretion in which cases to pursue and which ones not to pursue with no oversight other than a judge potentially throwing out a case he runs with. Most laws as written are necessarily quite broad and this is the person who gets to make the decision. Do you really think the legislature should write the law against theft is such a way as to include an itemized list of chargeable items and/or a list of exceptions? A bad prosecutor is far more dangerous than a bad law since the prosecutor is the one who gets to make the final decision on whether or not you get charged, once again, with virtually no oversight.

You're correct with respect to discretion and the impact it can have on a defendant. That being said, a judge accepted the felony plea. Judges have discretion too, and they're privy to the PC affidavits and police reports too. A judge can reject a plea, and tell the prosecutor s/he is full of beans. This happens, but not in the OP's case.

It is hard to conceive of a minor taking, such as stealing one cardboard box from a dumpster, that would warrant a felony charge. However, we're at a disadvantage as we have very limited facts to work with in the OPs case. Rarely are these 'simple' stories that simple.

Often when people post here about run-ins with the law, they minimize their culpability and the scope of the offense. After a lot of discussion it comes out that the offense was worse, or there were other circumstances not initially mentioned.

Regarding removal of mud, it would only be theft if you intended to take the mud, without permission of the owner or his agent, and thereby deprive the lawful owner of the use of said mud. If it just stuck to your shoes, as mud is wont to do, it wouldn't be theft, or conversion (although it could be a negligent tort, assuming the mud was valuable and the owner suffered some loss thereby and you failed to take precautions to avoid getting the mud on your shoes).

 

[CarmelHP]

I did a Doxpop and CMS case search on the profile name "Sarah Thatch" and only came up with a Marion Co. civil case. OP, what county was this in?

 

[j706]

Jesus.... the punishment should fit the crime.

Stealing a compacted 1500lbs bail of cardboard is theft. Taking "a cardboard box" out of a dumpster surely doesn't feel like a FELONY to me.

Want us to put on burkas and cut off her hands?

Chill a little. I don't write the laws. But in a way your are correct. That leads me to think there is more to the story than what have got so far. It is obvious that I am not the only one thinking that way.

 

[dusterboy49]

Not to thread jack, but I always believed that anything placed in the trash was considered to be abandoned property and as such the original owner no longer had any claim to it. The police use that argument to search peoples trash for evidence without obtaining a warrant and the courts have backed them. So if it was thrown into a dumpster how could this be theft? Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

As previously stated by another forum member, articles that are able to be recycled are placed into containers for pickup.
If you remove these items without consent you may be charged with theft.
Several years back, a guy was arrested and charged with theft in Steuben County for taking recyclables (aluminum cans) people had set out for pickup.

 

[Walkersdlx]

Dude that sucks, hope you get your ****.