License to carry denied

[Kutnupe14]

This might have been one of those cases to take to trial by jury. I can just imagine the looks on the juror's faces when they learned they gave up their day to decide a case about a stolen cardboard box.

How so? Would your mind be changed if it was clearly posted "no trespassers?"

I'd be interested to hear the full story. It's pretty obvious that we're getting the version most sympathetic to the OP.

 

[vitamink]

Here is a an excellent time for a true INGO learning experience. If the OP would be so kind as to provide a case number or full name and be willing to have the case posted here, I'd be willing to pay for the report. We could then set up a mock trial with INGO members as representatives and Kirk as commissioner. I'll post the case report and then we can argue the case. After our conclusion ill post the court findings. Afterwards we'll discuss. Then we will see if stealing a box is all it was, who the victim was, why the cops were compelled to make the arrest, what the evidence was, and why a judge/jury felt it warranted a conversion charge.

 

[j706]

Here is a an excellent time for a true INGO learning experience. If the OP would be so kind as to provide a case number or full name and be willing to have the case posted here, I'd be willing to pay for the report. We could then set up a mock trial with INGO members as representatives and Kirk as commissioner. I'll post the case report and then we can argue the case. After our conclusion ill post the court findings. Afterwards we'll discuss. Then we will see if stealing a box is all it was, who the victim was, why the cops were compelled to make the arrest, what the evidence was, and why a judge/jury felt it warranted a conversion charge.

Grand idea!!

 

[SaintsNSinners]

How so? Would your mind be changed if it was clearly posted "no trespassers?"

I'd be interested to hear the full story. It's pretty obvious that we're getting the version most sympathetic to the OP.

umm from my wonderful youth days I do remember that anything put out for trash not in a locked container was fair game... I did alot of dumpster diving, i even decorated a whole dorm room in dumpsterwear

 

[MikeDVB]

@Sarah, if I may ask - did you fight this charge? Did you get an attorney? If what you are saying is accurate (not saying it isn't) it looks to me like you got steamrolled over something that realistically should have been defensible.

More on topic - so long as your conviction was for a misdemeanor as you say, I think if you have the documentation to show that, you can win an appeal. Keep in mind I'm not a lawyer, and you probably should at the least consult an attorney.

 

[Kutnupe14]

umm from my wonderful youth days I do remember that anything put out for trash not in a locked container was fair game... I did alot of dumpster diving, i even decorated a whole dorm room in dumpsterwear

This is actually not completely true, and unfortunately a lot of people believe a you do. A dumpster placed on private property isn't the same as a roadside trash bin.

 

[cobber]

If you ask cobber or Fargo, they will say "never".

If you ask me, I will say "every single day"!!!

Nah, I would say it happens. And jurors love de minimus cases, even if there's a no trespassing sign posted. I'm sure none of us have anything better to do with our day than gravely listen to evidence that a person walked up to a dumpster and deliberately removed, w/o permission, a cardboard box.

My guess is that 90% of the jury have walked the alleys and helped themselves to empty cardboard boxes when preparing for a move, or helping their kids move. I personally ALWAYS go into the business and get signed permission to take a box.

I'd be interested to hear the full story. It's pretty obvious that we're getting the version most sympathetic to the OP.

Of course we don't have all the facts in the OP's case. Folks tend to minimize their culpability when recounting these tales o' horror.

 

[lon]

I'd be interested to hear the full story. It's pretty obvious that we're getting the version most sympathetic to the OP.

A few (any) more details would be helpful.

Was it just 1 box?

 

[MangoTango]

911: 911 what's your emergency?

Caller: I just saw a woman take a box out of my dumpster.

911: what is in the box?

caller:nothing. But she just took it and I have no idea what she is going to do with it.

911: Okay, sir, we will get someone right out there. Please stay on the phone until an officer arrives.

911: Do you see any weapons?

caller: No, it looks like she just has the box.

dispatch: units - step it up. Caller states that this may possibly be a box napping.

Thanks I needed that chuckle this morning.

 

[esigler]

Most likely the original charge entered by the police was never changed after court. I lived with mine saying I was a felon, when I wasn't. I never knew that I had to make sure it was changed. I was denied my first time till I sent court records to prove it. They are quick to condemn but slow to exonerate you!

 

[SSGSAD]

Should these Hoosiers have been allowed to carry a gun in public? | Indianapolis Star | indystar.com

Tagged for future reference... WELCOME to Sarah ...

 

[oldfb]

Smh

 

[mainjet]

It would be interesting if the OP would be so kind as to tell us what type of business the dumpster belonged too.

I still feel it is silly and unbelievable but I can imagine that certain businesses would be more uncomfortable with people crawling around in their dumpster, for example - a bank.

Possible they feel that there was more going on there than they could prove so they went with the ol'-stand-by - "theft of corrugated" charge.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Actually there are many company's that sell their cardboard products. We deal with these issues fairly often. People run around to closed businesses in the night helping themselves to what ever they want just because it is accessible. That is theft plain and simple.

The problem is that the penalty far outweighs the violation, and has even more troubling implications when you consider how it could be applied in future incidents. If you really believe that denying an enumerated Constitutional right over the unauthorized removal of an item that most people would believe to have been discarded is fitting, I really hope that you like authoritarian government, because this really does lead to a one strike and you are no longer a fully enfranchised citizen scenario.

 

[IndyDave1776]

No, the state legislature wrote the statute, which is now enforced by the ISP. These two parties are the ones responsible for this situation. Forgetting for the sake of argument that the OP initiated the whole thing, as absurd as the outcome might be.

Or do you have evidence that the prosecutor charged the OP solely with the intent that she be convicted of a felony just so she would no longer be considered a proper person?

Are you suggesting is that felonies should not be charged because under the law, the defendant is disqualified as a result? Also don't forget the BATFE is very interested when convicted felons possess firearms or even ammunition.

Don't like the law? Try contacting the people who have the constitutional authority to repeal or amend it.

I am not even going to dignify this with a specific response

 

[j706]

The problem is that the penalty far outweighs the violation, and has even more troubling implications when you consider how it could be applied in future incidents. If you really believe that denying an enumerated Constitutional right over the unauthorized removal of an item that most people would believe to have been discarded is fitting, I really hope that you like authoritarian government, because this really does lead to a one strike and you are no longer a fully enfranchised citizen scenario.

No one said anything about denying anyone an enumerated right. I was merely saying how the theft charge could have come about. Bottom line is don't take ANYTHING that does not belong to you without permission. But I still think there is more to this story than what we have been led to believe there is.

 

[lon]

I am not even going to dignify this with a specific response

Kinda looks like one from where I'm sittin'

 

[vitamink]

Bottom line is don't take ANYTHING that does not belong to you without permission.

I'm surprised many people blindly accept whatever they read. The last 5 sex offenders that i talked to had the same story.
"I was 18 and she was 15 but her parents wanted me arrested".... of course after reading the report you find out that he was 32 and she was 8, or he was 22 and they were sodomized with a broom handle...etc etc.

The last two wounded homeless vietnam veterans i talked to were neither homeless, wounded, nor veterans. If you get the chance to see the guy panhandling at 10th and MLK, park your car and watch him...he'll fold up his cane and get into a brand new blue chevy cobalt around 6:30 then he'll drive to geist with everyone that believes whatever they read's money.

 

[cobber]

I am not even going to dignify this with a specific response

Fair question. Don't address it if you don't understand why your analysis is wrong.

Prosecutor has nothing to do with the loss of rights.

He didn't write the law, he didn't enforce the prohibition. He charged the offender.

But blame him anyway if that makes you feel better.

And ignore the fact that the legislature wrote the law, which the prosecutor doesn't enforce. And that the BATFE, which is also not the prosecutor, can charge a felon with a federal offense for possessing a weapon.

You're right by gum, it's the prosecutor's fault. My bad.

 

[MikeDVB]

I have a feeling the OP isn't going to respond again... Let's see if I'm wrong.