I hope I don't start a war here, but I am trying to decide on a scope for my next rifle project. This rifle will be for hunting 200 yards and less. I used to hunt with Bushnell or Nikon scopes. I switched one rifle to a Leopold, and from that point on, decided I would never use anything but Leopold on a hunting rifle. I noticed a difference in clarity and the ability to hunt with lower light and the scope not cloud over. On this forum, I have seen a lot of people who really like the Vortex scopes. I have never even held one in real life. So, is there a drastic difference between the Leopold and the Vortex product? What are the pros and cons of each?
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Leupold vs. Vortex
- Thread starter Reagan40
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Vortex makes products every bit as good as Leupold. The difference is, with Leupold, you pay extra for the name.
If you have a fixed budget for a scope (say you want to spend $500 max), seems like you get a nicer scope from Vortex.
IMO, Leupold has been resting on its' name for the past few years. Other scope companies have caught up to their product. With some other companies, you either pay considerably less than Leupold for a comparable scope, or if you take your budget that you were going to use with Leupold, you can get a nicer scope elsewhere.
If you have a fixed budget for a scope (say you want to spend $500 max), seems like you get a nicer scope from Vortex.
IMO, Leupold has been resting on its' name for the past few years. Other scope companies have caught up to their product. With some other companies, you either pay considerably less than Leupold for a comparable scope, or if you take your budget that you were going to use with Leupold, you can get a nicer scope elsewhere.
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Im out of this argument before it starts.
If you would like real info (not internet folk lore), and comparison's feel free to email me at alan@aaoptics.com, or message me.
If you would like real info (not internet folk lore), and comparison's feel free to email me at alan@aaoptics.com, or message me.
In Optics at no time is the saying "You get what you pay for" more appropriate.
You can't evaluate an optic in a store or on a nice sunny day, you need to know what it will do on a cloudy day or in the last 20 minutes of shooting light after your tired and your eyes are strained.
Asking a salesman about his product probably won't get you there so you have to give Alan some props for that.
I don't know what to tell you, come to a HHRP rifle match and see what's on the line and see what people have on the top of the guns that win the match, Anybody can shoot in the match but where do you want to be, In the rabble or at the top.
You can't evaluate an optic in a store or on a nice sunny day, you need to know what it will do on a cloudy day or in the last 20 minutes of shooting light after your tired and your eyes are strained.
Asking a salesman about his product probably won't get you there so you have to give Alan some props for that.
I don't know what to tell you, come to a HHRP rifle match and see what's on the line and see what people have on the top of the guns that win the match, Anybody can shoot in the match but where do you want to be, In the rabble or at the top.
Just curious, what sort of rifle is it going on (Model, caliber)?
Here's my $0.02. I've got several (7) lower-range to mid-range (cost) scopes on different rifles, from .22's to AR' s to .308 bolt actions. I used to be cheap scope guy, but now than I'm able to financially, I've started putting nicer stuff on my rifles. My first decent scope was a Burris Fullfield II ($150ish). I liked it well enough that I bought another. Clear glass, nice BDC reticle, repeatable (but not accurate) tracking. I saw the glowing reviews of the Vortex stuff on here, and got a Crossfire II for a new .22 a few years ago. Long story short, I've got 6 more Vortex scopes now, including a couple of PST's/HS-LR's , and can't say enough good things about all of them. Clear glass, good reticle, accurate AND repeatable tracking.
To get to your main question about Leupold vs. Vortex, you can get similar quality/features in the Leupold, but my homework has shown you'll pay about 50% more to do it. I'd put the Crossover II on par with the VX-II in terms of clarity and quality, but is 1/2-2/3 the price. The Leupold Rifleman and VX-I lines don't do it for me in the $180-300 price range. The non-click turrets are a pet peeve of mine, though I'm sure they work OK. The Vortex Vipers and Viper PST's are at or above the Leupold VX-III' s in my (admittedly limited) experience with them.
The high end of the spectrum is where I have no experience, but the precision rifle guys can't say enough good things about the Razor Gen II scopes right now. Lots of people are going away from BIG name brands for them.
For the low/mid range scopes ($150-300) that I have personally seen/used, I'd rank them:
1. Vortex Crossover II
2. Burris Fullfield II/Nikon P series
3. Leupold VX-I
4. Leupold Rifleman
From what I can tell, some of the Weaver models fall in there somewhere, probably between 2 and 3, but I don't have much experience with them or Bushnell.
I have some strong opinions on this, because I've used both brands and paid for both. I'm not an expert on scopes, but I have used them in the Army, and on the civilian side. There are others who have much more expertise than I who have already posted in this thread. All I would say is, don't marry a brand. Evaluate the scope based on your needs and its features /quality. All I will say is, when comparing similar lines of the two brands, you will walk away scratching your head at the difference in price. But don't take my word for it. Just remember, gun guys get really passionate about their gear, and a lot of that is a bias toward what they own. No one wants to know they spent $1300 on a $900 scope.
Budget? What type of hunting?
I'll bite as I am going through a very similar process for my compact .308. I continue to use both & I don't know that there is a universal winner, IMO, as I think each company has strengths. FWIW, the VX-3 (and FX-3) glass is the first tier at which I find Leupold to hold an appeal. I was less than impressed with the optics on the Mark 4's I have had, given the sizable $$$ they cost. YMMV.
The 30mm VX-6 looks nice and may reflect a new level of competitiveness, particularly in the 1-6x24 CDS Firedot (available <$850 if you shop hard) but I didn't find the glass enough of an improvement over my Weaver 1-5x DG to pick up a new scope. It was better in almost every aspect, but I already have the DG and couldn't quite justify the upgrade considering the use it will get.
If Vortex makes a scope that matches your wants/needs (and they seem to do a very good job of listening to the market) then it is almost certain that a Vortex option will be a better value. OTOH, if your wants fall between the cracks in the Vortex lineup, you may find a better "fit" in the Leupold line.
Probably the biggest advantage Leupold has over Vortex is in the number of options and configurations available. Even better, if they make a scope that is "almost perfect" for your needs, you can often send it to the Custom Shop and have it tweaked to fit your wants more exactly (for extra $$$, of course.) Then again, if you find yourself needing too many "tweaks", you can easily find yourself in a whole other price bracket.
Features of note on the Vortex products:
- re-indexing turrets on most, if not all, models (allows resetting the zero to "face" the shooter after sighting in the rifle)
- BDC subtensions that are easy to remember and consistent across a number of product lines
- the reticles are clean and reasonably fine but, while they do not obscure much of the target, I find the non-illuminated reticles can get hard to find against brush & timber under lower-light hunting conditions
Features of note on the Leupold VX-3 products:
- CDS turrets can re-index, but their standard turrets DO NOT
- Depending on the scope model, there are often a variety of reticles to chose from including a heavy duplex
Depending on your budget, though, you might also want to consider the Sightron SIII & SWFA scopes as well. If your budget goes high enough, I think my Swarovski Z3 glass put my HS-LR & my VX-3s to shame (but outside of the glass, the Swaro feature set was essentially non-existent.)
I know I may well end up with a(nother) Vortex for my .308, but they just haven't put out the "perfect" combination for me yet.
BTW, if you happen to decide you want to try a VX-3 3.5-10x50 w/ CDS elevation, I happen to know where you can get a pretty good deal on one
I'll bite as I am going through a very similar process for my compact .308. I continue to use both & I don't know that there is a universal winner, IMO, as I think each company has strengths. FWIW, the VX-3 (and FX-3) glass is the first tier at which I find Leupold to hold an appeal. I was less than impressed with the optics on the Mark 4's I have had, given the sizable $$$ they cost. YMMV.
The 30mm VX-6 looks nice and may reflect a new level of competitiveness, particularly in the 1-6x24 CDS Firedot (available <$850 if you shop hard) but I didn't find the glass enough of an improvement over my Weaver 1-5x DG to pick up a new scope. It was better in almost every aspect, but I already have the DG and couldn't quite justify the upgrade considering the use it will get.
If Vortex makes a scope that matches your wants/needs (and they seem to do a very good job of listening to the market) then it is almost certain that a Vortex option will be a better value. OTOH, if your wants fall between the cracks in the Vortex lineup, you may find a better "fit" in the Leupold line.
Probably the biggest advantage Leupold has over Vortex is in the number of options and configurations available. Even better, if they make a scope that is "almost perfect" for your needs, you can often send it to the Custom Shop and have it tweaked to fit your wants more exactly (for extra $$$, of course.) Then again, if you find yourself needing too many "tweaks", you can easily find yourself in a whole other price bracket.
Features of note on the Vortex products:
- re-indexing turrets on most, if not all, models (allows resetting the zero to "face" the shooter after sighting in the rifle)
- BDC subtensions that are easy to remember and consistent across a number of product lines
- the reticles are clean and reasonably fine but, while they do not obscure much of the target, I find the non-illuminated reticles can get hard to find against brush & timber under lower-light hunting conditions
Features of note on the Leupold VX-3 products:
- CDS turrets can re-index, but their standard turrets DO NOT
- Depending on the scope model, there are often a variety of reticles to chose from including a heavy duplex
Depending on your budget, though, you might also want to consider the Sightron SIII & SWFA scopes as well. If your budget goes high enough, I think my Swarovski Z3 glass put my HS-LR & my VX-3s to shame (but outside of the glass, the Swaro feature set was essentially non-existent.)
I know I may well end up with a(nother) Vortex for my .308, but they just haven't put out the "perfect" combination for me yet.
BTW, if you happen to decide you want to try a VX-3 3.5-10x50 w/ CDS elevation, I happen to know where you can get a pretty good deal on one
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I own both. Vortex may be good. It is fine on my 10/22 and I am confident it will do the job for me. I chose it over a Bushnell or a Nikon or some lower priced scope.
For my AR I chose Leupold. Mostly because I didn't care for the reticle on the Vortex scopes and I really liked the reticle on the VX-R 3X9 I bought. I'm not willing to spend the money on, say a Nightforce and I question when you jump up that much does it become a case of diminishing returns? I don't' know as I have never looked through one. But I will spend an extra $100 if what I consider important features are better liked by me. Reticles are one feature that is very important to me.
There is a lot of internet chatter about how great Vortex is and how Leupold has been resting on their laurels. I guess time will tell if Vortex stays in the game as long as Leupold and becomes a dominant optics manufacturer.
In the end, they are probably both more than sufficient for most of us mere mortals.
Alan sells both, so I think you will get good advice from him. He has not steered me wrong though I don't make decisions based on just one or two recommendations. And neither should you.
For my AR I chose Leupold. Mostly because I didn't care for the reticle on the Vortex scopes and I really liked the reticle on the VX-R 3X9 I bought. I'm not willing to spend the money on, say a Nightforce and I question when you jump up that much does it become a case of diminishing returns? I don't' know as I have never looked through one. But I will spend an extra $100 if what I consider important features are better liked by me. Reticles are one feature that is very important to me.
There is a lot of internet chatter about how great Vortex is and how Leupold has been resting on their laurels. I guess time will tell if Vortex stays in the game as long as Leupold and becomes a dominant optics manufacturer.
In the end, they are probably both more than sufficient for most of us mere mortals.
Alan sells both, so I think you will get good advice from him. He has not steered me wrong though I don't make decisions based on just one or two recommendations. And neither should you.
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johntheplinker
Master
Here's my 
. I've got a pair of Ruger American rimfires, one in 17 HMR (long range rimfire plinker) and the other in 22 mag (truck/varmint rig). The 17 has a Leupold 3x9x40 VXII, while the 22 has a Vortex Diamondback HP 3x12x42. To make a short story shorter, the Leupold is going away to be replaced by another Vortex Diamondback. At equal magnification the Diamondback is clearer, better color contrast, and better adjustments than the Leupold.
. I've got a pair of Ruger American rimfires, one in 17 HMR (long range rimfire plinker) and the other in 22 mag (truck/varmint rig). The 17 has a Leupold 3x9x40 VXII, while the 22 has a Vortex Diamondback HP 3x12x42. To make a short story shorter, the Leupold is going away to be replaced by another Vortex Diamondback. At equal magnification the Diamondback is clearer, better color contrast, and better adjustments than the Leupold.
I have owned a few of each 3 PST's 1 Mark 4' and 1 VXR Patrol along with a few lower end as well.
I opted for the Leupold VXR Patrol 1.25-4 over the PST solely over the reticle I just preferred the SPR reticle over the Vortex. It was just a little busy and too compact. No perceivable quality difference in glass. The Mark 4 vs PST again if the reticles were identical I don't think I could tell you which one I was looking through. I just built a AR-10 and opted for a 4-16 pst and couldn't be happier.I originally approached Allen with questions on a VX6 3-18 but opted for the PST as it was just better bang for my buck.
I'll also add Vortex has pretty awesome customer service. I lost a screw to my switch view they shipped one next day for free. I dropped my .458 last deer season and kicked it across the parking lot. Vortex shipped me new turrets and battery cover for free even after I explained what happened. Granted I've never used Leupolds CS I'm guessing Vortex is gonna be tough to beat.
Vortex is my first look for optics.
Allen is awesome to deal with .
I opted for the Leupold VXR Patrol 1.25-4 over the PST solely over the reticle I just preferred the SPR reticle over the Vortex. It was just a little busy and too compact. No perceivable quality difference in glass. The Mark 4 vs PST again if the reticles were identical I don't think I could tell you which one I was looking through. I just built a AR-10 and opted for a 4-16 pst and couldn't be happier.I originally approached Allen with questions on a VX6 3-18 but opted for the PST as it was just better bang for my buck.
I'll also add Vortex has pretty awesome customer service. I lost a screw to my switch view they shipped one next day for free. I dropped my .458 last deer season and kicked it across the parking lot. Vortex shipped me new turrets and battery cover for free even after I explained what happened. Granted I've never used Leupolds CS I'm guessing Vortex is gonna be tough to beat.
Vortex is my first look for optics.
Allen is awesome to deal with .
Nope, Ive got into arguments 30-50 times on this forum with the same people over and over again. A simple search will produce me giving the facts, and folks arguing with me and it turns in to a cluster. I will say this, Im a dealer for both companies, and I stock Vortex.
Thanks for the replies everyone. Also, thanks for keeping it civil. The rifle is a Remington 700 in .458 Socom that I am building. It will be used for dear and bear hunting. My other deer rifles have Leupold VX 1 3x9x40's on them. I don't need any more magnification than that. I do think I will look to see what the comparable Vortex scope is and consider giving it a shot.
The rifle is a Remington 700 in .458 Socom that I am building. It will be used for dear and bear hunting. My other deer rifles have Leupold VX 1 3x9x40's on them. I don't need any more magnification than that. I do think I will look to see what the comparable Vortex scope is and consider giving it a shot.In some cases, there is just no amount of facts that could change someone's opinion. Especially someone who has paid $600 for a scope that is really only comparable to a $400 scope (for example). They're vested and have spent their money. They don't want to hear that they didn't make a smart and informed decision.
BTW, Thanks for your help in the past with my scope decision. Not sure, but I don't think I ever thanked you on here for helping educate me on scopes. It has translated to more fun at the range and a better hunting experience.
BTW, Thanks for your help in the past with my scope decision. Not sure, but I don't think I ever thanked you on here for helping educate me on scopes. It has translated to more fun at the range and a better hunting experience.
I really enjoy educating folks who want to learn. The folks that call/email me wanting to teach me make me scratch my head sometimes.
thanks Alan. I just sent you an email.
USMC-Johnson
Expert
Been talking and conversing with Alan for a bit over a year now and i can attest that he knows his ****. Anytime i talk to him i use it as an opportunity to learn. He can still make my brain smoke in half a second if he wants to i guarantee it!
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