Let's discuss prepping for wound closures and severe bleeding?

[teddy12b]

I'm starting this discussion because it needs it's own home. The topic was brought up in this thread https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ruck_bag_for_your_review_and_suggestions.html about how best to close a wound.

In the thread mentioned above I had shown that I had a suture kit in my medical kit. Other options have been discussed like steri strips, butterfly bandages, celox, super glue, liquid bandages, GI field bandages, Israeli bandages, gauzes, and probably some other things. The intent of talking about this isn't to get everyone mad at each other, but to get quality information out to all those who are interested in learning it.

I personally feel like this is really important because be it a SHTF scenario, hunting trip, or just out in the middle of nowhere if you get a deep wound or nasty gash you need to be able to stop the bleeding yourself or risk bleeding out. Depending on how remote you are or lack of professional services for whatever reasons, you may need to not only stop the bleeding but also repair the wound yourself. The supplies you bring and carry can make the difference between life and death.

So with all that said, what do you carry in your medical kit to stop severe bleeding, close a wound if needed, and get yourself back up and running.

 

[alloyguitar]

Subscribed.

 

[cbseniour]

About 100 years ago I was a medic, and even back then I learned that what method or equipment you use to close a wound in not nearly as important as some other factors.
In Nam we were always taught not to do a permanent closure and not to worry too much about cleanliness in the field as the wounded would be transported to a field hospital where the would would have to be opened up and cleaned and debreeded(spelling) before closing permanently.
However, if you are talking the real shtf moment when you may not be able to get back to professional medical help then it is important to not only close the wound but to seal off any cut arteries or large viens and take out dead tissue then you may need to put stitches or glue in internal parts like muscles that are torn before closing the skin.
If these thing concern you then take a serious first aid course. Does anyone teach a survival first aid course???

 

[teddy12b]

If these thing concern you then take a serious first aid course. Does anyone teach a survival first aid course???

I'd like to but I don't really know where to look. The red cross courses sound a little too soft and some of the "hardcore" classes can get pretty expensive pretty quick. I need to take a class.

 

[JB75]

It might sound silly,but I saw on a movie called the road the guy used a stapeler could that even work.

 

[teddy12b]

Yes, staples are another means used to close wounds, but I've never used one. I know cabelas sells them, but I don't know when is the right or wrong time to use them.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Cloth and duct tape. Will hold securely but can be removed easily enough.

 

[JB75]

black powder and a match? It sounds crazy to me and I know its only tv but they used it on dual survival on discovery.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

Here's a link to a thread that will probably answer every question on the topic . Suture info


The last post on the 2nd page is pretty interesting .

 

[teddy12b]

Videos for discussion:

Wound closure using a staple:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rOQg2wGlA4[/ame]

Wound closure using a suture:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P0rYS6LeZw&NR=1[/ame]

Using a steri strip:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA6gMr1ScBo&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/ame]

Adhesives:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neb4OIqZeRo&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/ame]

Equipment:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF45sshWpvQ&feature=related[/ame]

I'M NOT SAYING THAT THESE VIDEOS ARE CORRECT OR THAT THESE EXAMPLES ARE PERFECT, BUT THEY ARE GOOD VIDEOS FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY.

 

[Zoub]

Training is critical to success on this topic. Scouts with the basic Firstaid merit badge know more than 99.99% of the population. Training will help you to determine what to carry but more importantly, how to improvise.

I would not fixate on being able to stitch a wound, you can do more damage with bad stitches in terms of infection and debris but the option to do it should be in your kits.

I always have more than one bandana, white medical tape and duct tape near me or on me. There are hemostats in my gear too. I use them for fishing as well. When you are bleeding out, fish guts are a non issue.

Large wounds, even to the bone, while painful are not as big a deal as cut arteries or large veins on a shallow cut. One example, a large fish hook in the wrist.

The mecial tape tends to be used as "bandaids" because real bandaids are useless. They don't store long term as well as white tape and are no where near as waterproof. Duct tape for bigger stuff. The ultimate butterfly bandage if you have to walk out after being hurt.

Back in my youth the rule was the Dr. would stitch the wound shut if it was less than 24 hours old, otherwise it would get packed. I know it has changed since then.

I once had a fist sized hole in the back of my leg. The bone stopped it from going all the way through. It hurt like hell for awhile but didn't bleed much. In that respect I was lucky as I was on foot and more than 24 hours away from any medical help but I knew how to treat the wound because I had been taught how to do it.

I also think the fact the low temps were close to 50 below helped slow the bleeding. The same way cold water can slow bleeding, but you better know what you are doing before you jump in water.

The best medical gear is the stuff you actually carry, it is just like weapons. A big .308 left at home is useless when you are being eaten alive but a .45 on you might change the course of events if you know where to aim it.

PS you can buy the Scout merit badge books and the basic redcross course is not that bad. You have to build your base of knowledge.

 

[alloyguitar]

Let's set up a scenario for discussion, if that's alright.

I do a lot of backpacking (mostly in the appalacians (I can never spell that word correctly.) but ocassionally in the rockies/elsewhere), so let's say you're at least 5 miles from cell phone service/your car/a road/whatever. Point is that you need to walk 5 miles in wooded terrain with your pack (maybe 40 lbs) to get back to anything or anybody that could help you.

Well, you slip on a rock, and somehow manage to put a 5 inch gash in your calf. Not deep enough to hit tendons or anything, but deep enough to get into muscle.

I carry a first aid kit with the usual stuff in it (gauze, bandaids, alcohol preps, super glue, butterfly closure, ace bandages some otc pain meds like aleve, MAYBE an israeli bandage, etc. No quikclot or suture kit or that fancy stuff.), so we'll assume that you do, too.

How do you treat/close the wound enough to be able to hobble the 5 miles out and not lose a leg?

 

[cbseniour]

It might sound silly,but I saw on a movie called the road the guy used a stapeler could that even work.

Surgeons use staplers all the time, So long as it will hold the wound closed and stop bleeding anything in an emergency

 

[redneckmedic]

Sounds like someone needs to take a basic trauma course.... I would want to know how to stop major bleeding long before I would ever consider when, how, and more importantly when not and how not to close a wound.

 

[cbseniour]

Let's set up a scenario for discussion, if that's alright.

I do a lot of backpacking (mostly in the appalacians (I can never spell that word correctly.) but ocassionally in the rockies/elsewhere), so let's say you're at least 5 miles from cell phone service/your car/a road/whatever. Point is that you need to walk 5 miles in wooded terrain with your pack (maybe 40 lbs) to get back to anything or anybody that could help you.

Well, you slip on a rock, and somehow manage to put a 5 inch gash in your calf. Not deep enough to hit tendons or anything, but deep enough to get into muscle.

I carry a first aid kit with the usual stuff in it (gauze, bandaids, alcohol preps, super glue, butterfly closure, ace bandages some otc pain meds like aleve, MAYBE an israeli bandage, etc. No quikclot or suture kit or that fancy stuff.), so we'll assume that you do, too.

How do you treat/close the wound enough to be able to hobble the 5 miles out and not lose a leg?

#1 stop the bleeding, if you can pull it together with something t hat is good if not place a bandage over the wound and wrap it with anything that will keep it snug but not cut off circulation ( ace bandages are great for this). Now would be a good time to take a break and put your foot up for a few minutes, eat something if you can while the pressure helps the bleeding stop then get on your way.

 

[alloyguitar]

Yeah, I understand the elevation, pressure, etc to stop bleeding. I'm more concerned with how one would go about closing the wound adequately enough to (with aid) walk out.

I've taken a cpr/first aid cert course, but they didn't really go into detail about a situation like that, plus it was a few years ago.

 

[cbseniour]

The use of a bandage and pressure if you can sustain the pressure will in effect keep the wound closed. Leave it to the pros to clean it out and close it for healing.
If you think it will help and you have tape of any kind use strips of tape across the wound to pull the sides together like butterfly closures or steri strips only adjusted to the scale of the would.

 

[jeremy]

Yeah, I understand the elevation, pressure, etc to stop bleeding. I'm more concerned with how one would go about closing the wound adequately enough to (with aid) walk out.

I've taken a cpr/first aid cert course, but they didn't really go into detail about a situation like that, plus it was a few years ago.

In the Situation you have given...

Stuff the Wound with Gauze, place an Izzy over that covering the Wound completely and wrap tight as a Pressure Dressing. I would also Splint this type of wound to make the 5 mile walk out a little easier on you. EAT and DRINK water while you wait to see it the Pressure Dressing stops the bleeding.

If the Pressure Dressing will not work Tourniquet and get moving. Seeking Professional Medical Attention ASAP.

In a Combat Situation.
Tourniquet first, then stuff and cover the wound.

 

[Gamez235]

Get some training, Period. All I have to say. I'd personally discuss most of the issues regarding this topic with medical professionals. It is amazing how much info they will share with you.

As for "closing a wound", jam it full of gauze, wrap it, and beat feet to the nearest medical facility.

*What if one isn't available*

Unless you or someone around is a properly equipped and/or trained health care professional, you're going to die most likely.

So, that being said, get trained yourself to an adequate level or become friends or marry someone who is.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

If you try the phrase "wilderness medical training" in Google, you'll find everything from Wilderness EMT training to Wilderness Medical training. Most EMT training is oriented toward stabilizing a patient and getting them to a hospital ASAP. Wilderness medicine and some Special Forces medical training is more oriented toward medical issues when there isn't going to be a doctor/hospital available in the near term.