Legal question...

[JDonhardt]

I want to buy a rifle for my father for his birthday this summer. He doesnt own any guns at the moment, but he used to shoot in the army back in the 60's. We go to the range now and then. He likes shooting and has been thinking about dabbling in some hunting - small time, small game, not a big deal, just as a hobby.

My question is this: When filling out the form to buy a gun, the 4473 yes or no section has a question asking, basically, 'if you are buying this gun for someone else'....now, I know my father would be able to legally own a gun, but I'm pretty sure you cannot check the box stating that you are, in fact buying it for someone else. So, should I just 'buy it for myself' and "sell" it to my father (for $0) or.....?

I'd like to do the whole wrapped gift thing with cake and ice cream, if possible...anyone in the know, I seek your wisdom!

 

[mrjarrell]

You can buy it for yourself and give it as a gift to whomever you please. That question is to trap people making a straw purchase, not a gift purchase. Just buy it, wrap it up and wish him a happy day!

 

[evansvillethompsongunner]

You can buy it for yourself and give it as a gift to whomever you please. That question is to trap people making a straw purchase, not a gift purchase. Just buy it, wrap it up and wish him a happy day!

BINGO, BANGO!

Winner winner, chicken dinner and no time spent being interrogated by the ATF.

Everybody wins.

 

[CountryBoy19]

You aren't purchasing it for someone else (they give you money, you purchase it, then give it to them), you're purchasing for yourself to gift to him.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Even Sarah Brady bought a rifle for her son.

As long as your father is not a prohibited person (no offense just stating the obvious), you will have no issues.

 

[kludge]

ATF Online - Training - Firearms - Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide Learning Theater - Straw Purchase Attempt Transcript

If, however, Bobby was with his father or other legal guardian, and his father was legally eligible to obtain the handgun as a gift for Bobby, his father would fill out Form 4473, undergo the NICS check, and assume legal responsibility for the transaction and the gun. Bobby’s father could truthfully complete the Form 4473 to indicate that he is the actual purchaser because he would take title to the weapon and then transfer the firearm to Bobby as a gift.

emphasis added.

 

[David Fortis]

ATF has never been overly clear on the straw man doctrine or even why it exists. On the one hand, they can't afford to say you can never buy a gun as a gift for someone else. On the other hand, they don't want person A putting his name on all the records when person B actually takes the gun.

 

[JDonhardt]

ATF Online - Training - Firearms - Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide Learning Theater - Straw Purchase Attempt Transcript



emphasis added.

Thanks for this link

 

[kludge]

ATF has never been overly clear on the straw man doctrine or even why it exists.

Well, the rationale of gun control laws are usually "to keep gun out of the hands of criminals".

But criminals are notorious for ignoring laws.

 

[Dawall]

Everyone is correct.

 

[singlesix]

Lets see ... my son gives me a gun for a present and some Gov't puke starts asking questions ... hmm guess who I'd protect. Buy it .. wrap ... enjoy it.

 

[WeAreNotAlone]

I want to buy a rifle for my father for his birthday this summer. He doesnt own any guns at the moment, but he used to shoot in the army back in the 60's. We go to the range now and then. He likes shooting and has been thinking about dabbling in some hunting - small time, small game, not a big deal, just as a hobby.

My question is this: When filling out the form to buy a gun, the 4473 yes or no section has a question asking, basically, 'if you are buying this gun for someone else'....now, I know my father would be able to legally own a gun, but I'm pretty sure you cannot check the box stating that you are, in fact buying it for someone else. So, should I just 'buy it for myself' and "sell" it to my father (for $0) or.....?

I'd like to do the whole wrapped gift thing with cake and ice cream, if possible...anyone in the know, I seek your wisdom!

Just a idea,

Depending on how picky (hard to buy for) your dad is.

You could take your dad along with you to the shop you plan on making the purchase, tell him he can pick out anything in xyz price range.

You could also say put something on layaway, Or better yet go in ahead of time and talk with the shop owner saying you're trying to surprise your dad with something..
(*Shop owner might give you a few bucks off for you being a good son)
Shop owner could put back the unit you've picked out- hand it to your dad and say "If you like it, It's paid for"- and point to you.

I know it doesn't fit into the plan of cake and ice cream- but for those persons that are hard to buy for it's one way to be sure they get something they'd like.


Alternative plan for cake and ice-cream type presentation:

Swing by gunshop and tell shop owner you're trying to surprise your dad. (Remember shopowner might get a few bucks off for being a good son...)
Take dad to gun shop, find out what gun he shows the most interest in, Maybe make a comment about how you WISH you could get him something like that, but just can't afford it right now. Shop owner puts the one he looked at aside for you, You come back later and buy it, giftwrap, give as present.

Presentation idea:

When presenting the present instead of bringing out a gun box first thing, you could say have something he has talked about while at the range (EG: say a sling, gizmo) boxed up and present that as his "present". After he has opened the "gizmo"..... THEN you bring out the big box, saying something to the effect here's the part that go with that gizmo..




.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

ATF has never been overly clear on the straw man doctrine or even why it exists. On the one hand, they can't afford to say you can never buy a gun as a gift for someone else. On the other hand, they don't want person A putting his name on all the records when person B actually takes the gun.

Actually they have been quite clear. Watch the DON'T LIE FOR THE OTHER GUY videos as ATF suggests. During my FFL interview I got straight answers from ATF. Everyone I have dealt with at ATF has been VERY helpful.

 

[CarmelHP]

Of course, if dealers are telling the truth, ATF lies flat out. I have been told by dealers that ATF agents have told them they can't ship C&R's directly to C&R FFL holders. That is a flat out lie or so gross a misstatement that it cannot be seen to be an innocent mistake. Of course, the first part of my opening line applies.