Legal challenge questions reliability of police dogs

[poptab]

Also the whole idea of depriving people of life and liberty for possessing any sort of contraband is rediculous. Government force if used at all should be reserved for perpetrators of crimes with tangible external victims.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Also the whole idea of depriving people of life and liberty for possessing any sort of contraband is rediculous. Government force if used at all should be reserved for perpetrators of crimes with tangible external victims.

You're the open border Libertarian guy right? (not a knock)

 

[CarmelHP]

I think properly trained (and motivated) police dogs are quite reliable. I say that the people making these decisions on reliability see how the dogs work. If they fail decertify them.

And you base this on what statistically valid test or study, exactly?

 

[CarmelHP]

So because of that 1 in 10 instance we should......???

Actually, in the study cited, it was almost 9 out of 10 wrong, so for the 1 in 10 chance that it's right, we should....???

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Hi, Kirk here, pet peeve of mine. Outside of the magic evolution of the dogs themselves (I had a case where a dog magically evolved the ability to smell pills), there is a real problem with the Chompies.

It is this: the dogs are always deemed correct. Even if nothing is there, the dogs are deemed correct and there is no consequences to an incorrect sniff.

The problem is that when the dogs indicate but nothing is found, and it is often, the police mark it down to "contraband was just there and the dogs are smelling the Phantom Menance of pot".

A solution that I have proposed:

1. Expand IRE 617 to include dog sniffs.

2. Make the police keep a batting average. Treat the dogs as snitches and make the prosecution prove them reliable.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Every single k9 handler I know keeps a log on every single thing that the dog is used on

Then why do they say that they do not when under oath in depositions and in court?

 

[Bunnykid68]

Then why do they say that they do not when under oath in depositions and in court?

If you had a horrible batting average would you want it in the public record?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

No, but police should be required to keep them to prove their reliability.

The problem is that Officer Chompy is used as a stalking horse for a free search. It's not right and it needs to change.

 

[Bunnykid68]

No, but police should be required to keep them to prove their reliability.

The problem is that Officer Chompy is used as a stalking horse for a free search. It's not right and it needs to change.

Yes it does.

 

[Kutnupe14]

No, but police should be required to keep them to prove their reliability.

The problem is that Officer Chompy is used as a stalking horse for a free search. It's not right and it needs to change.

Theres nothing wrong with that. The dog's reliability should be strictly documented. If and a dog is proven to be unreliable they should be taken out of service.

 

[CarmelHP]

Theres nothing wrong with that. The dog's reliability should be strictly documented. If and a dog is proven to be unreliable they should be taken out of service.

And if they're all proven unreliable, can we finally end this legal voodoo?

 

[Kutnupe14]

And if they're all proven unreliable, can we finally end this legal voodoo?

Certainly, but I don't think the dogs are unreliable. Actually, I think the issue is with the handlers. Anybody that's hunted or been on an type of track with a dog will attest to how good their noses are. Trained dogs can track scent or disturbance hours after something or someone has long past. It's the handlers that should be better trained (ie to accept that there's nothing there), not the dogs. IMO.

 

[Gluemanz28]

I was told by a K-9 officer that if you get bit by the dog even if by mistake you will be arrested for resisting to prevent a lawsuit

 

[CarmelHP]

Certainly, but I don't think the dogs are unreliable. Actually, I think the issue is with the handlers. Anybody that's hunted or been on an type of track with a dog will attest to how good their noses are. Trained dogs can track scent or disturbance hours after something or someone has long past. It's the handlers that should be better trained (ie to accept that there's nothing there), not the dogs. IMO.

The method is unreliable. Dogs may be able to smell a drop of pee in the ocean, but if the handlers can't be trusted to not intentionally or unintentionally cue the dogs 85% of the time, then the method is unreliable and invalid.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Theres nothing wrong with that. The dog's reliability should be strictly documented. If and a dog is proven to be unreliable they should be taken out of service.

The dogs are not documented or if they are documented the dogs are always "right" because they are smelling stuff that is not there but it is logged as a correct answer.

Officer Chompy has been getting a pass for far too long. Video tape them and make the batting averages discoverable.

 

[Kutnupe14]

The dogs are not documented or if they are documented the dogs are always "right" because they are smelling stuff that is not there but it is logged as a correct answer.

Officer Chompy has been getting a pass for far too long. Video tape them and make the batting averages discoverable.

again, I'm not opposed to anything that forces the right thing to happen. I don't want to be searching a car after a dog indicates, and end up empty handed.

 

[Bunnykid68]

again, I'm not opposed to anything that forces the right thing to happen. I don't want to be searching a car after a dog indicates, and end up empty handed.

Which is why they need to quit searching cars with the dog in the 1st place, if there is not good enough reason to search in the 1st place leave the dog in the car.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I don't want to be searching a car after a dog indicates, and end up empty handed.

The police don't come up empty handed.

If nothing is there then it never happened. Down the memory hole it goes and it never happened.

If something is there, I get to hear about how the dog magically evolved the ability to smell pills.

 

[hornadylnl]

What is the track record of stop and frisk?

 

[Bunnykid68]

What is the track record of stop and frisk?

About the same would be my guess, but they don't keep records either.