Mental illness has no boundaries.............
That tweet crystalizes the insanity we are witnessing in 2022.Sounds pretty crazy, I wonder if DOJ is investigating. Maybe they can spare a little time from the search for the elusive white supremacist.
Other than rape, the mother agreed to the creation of the new DNA by having unprotected sex. Her decision has been made.The DNA is unique, but a pre-viability fetus is the exact opposite of independent.
While in-utero, that “unique individual” is entirely dependent on the cooperation of its mother to survive to birth: she eats for, respires for, and processes the waste for that “independent individual”, and she does so at her own peril…a non-zero number of American women die during otherwise routine childbirth, countless more carry permanent injury or disability following their pregnancy.
My argument is that a woman herself, not the government or society at large, faces the risks associated with pregnancy and birth, and no other person on the planet can assume those risks for her, so no other person can assert consent to those risks for her.
A woman can reassess her risk at any time during pregnancy, and she may decide those risks to her are too great to continue a pregnancy, even a wanted one.
In my view, “we” don’t get a say in the life of that child until it joins us in our world. Until birth the life of an unborn child belongs to the the mother alone, and she alone gets to decide which “unique individuals” get to pass through her body.
Just for fun...as if, I'm going to quote a bunch of Indiana statutes (not all) here that deal with abortion so people can see what is already on the books. These are a fraction of the statutes, but give a good idea of Indiana's public policy as expressed in its statutes:Yes, and no. I posted the link to the wrong page sorta. Here is the link I should have posted. It's the section of code before the one I did.
Indiana Code Title 16. Health § 16-34-2-1 | FindLaw
Indiana Title 16. Health Section 16-34-2-1. Read the code on FindLawcodes.findlaw.com
That wasn't really my question, though. Would abortion proponents consider Indiana "anti-choice"/"anti-women"/"Literal Gilead"/etc. with laws that permit elective abortion until 20 weeks, while simultaneously admitting/claiming that 99% of abortions take place earlier than 15 weeks?
If you carve out for rape as an example, what do you do with the mother afterwards if the rape claim was false? Also does this allow for a premeditated murder charge for the woman?The law should be nuanced and have certain carve-outs. Not some ham handed blanket law. you dont get nuance in 2 weeks.
All this needs is commentary from the Florida Sheriff…LOL, they forgot, they ain't in Seattle any more.
My points were more of stances. I see yours as rationale and agree with your elaborations.Two critical differences. Our position on 2A is backed up by the constitution and we have already 'compromised' on infringement too much and thus, seeing there is no end to the compromising (read: desired further infringement), we dig in our heels
Neither is true of those who are pro-abortion. Their position has no constitutional backing and their continued push for less and less restriction was never met with meaningful, court sanctioned limitation UNTIL the question was taken up by the final court possible
I think it would be reasonable to require a filed police report alleging the rape, in order to invoke a rape exception for abortion.If you carve out for rape as an example, what do you do with the mother afterwards if the rape claim was false? Also does this allow for a premeditated murder charge for the woman?
If a rape is claimed, must there be formal charges against A man before that claim can be used for an abortion? Must the man be convicted before that claim can be used for an abortion? What happens if said trial is delayed more than 9 months? Exactly how deep are we willing to “nuance” a carve out in a law that would allow for children that can’t protect themselves from harm, be murdered?
I agree.I see no value or benefit from charging the mother with premeditated murder due to a falsified rape allegation. The punishment for the false allegation/false police report should be sufficient, I would think.
I don't understand the criticism. We expand individual liberty. Damaged like the Antifa and Jane's Revenge butters deserve damaged because they violate others' rights.I hope you would keep in mind that, like politics, 'society' is probably granular to the local level. If Antifa or Jane's Revenge claim the right to act in ways a locality might find has 'negative effects', how 'society' sorts that out will vary substantially from location to location. The video of SC police tasing and arresting protesters compared to how they would be treated in DC or Seattle should attest to that
Thinking that the concept of 'society' is a monolithic whole rather than a vector sum may lead to those acting up too much in the wrong place developing leaks. People from progressive enclaves seem to expect their home RoE to apply everywhere and are quite surprised when they do not
Agree with this also especially now someone has pointed out the law in Indiana allows abortions to 20 weeks vs full term.At the very least, allow enough time for the legislators, as well as the electorate, to actually read and comment upon it
No more 'We had to pass the bill in order to see what was in it'
This discussion really highlights the inconsistency of saying abortion is wrong except in cases of rape, especially if your argument for abortion being wrong is that an unborn child has a right to life.I think it would be reasonable to require a filed police report alleging the rape, in order to invoke a rape exception for abortion.
I see no value or benefit from charging the mother with premeditated murder due to a falsified rape allegation. The punishment for the false allegation/false police report should be sufficient, I would think.
Understand that my frame of reference is as a Christian. As such, I believe that, ultimately, we will each answer to a Higher power, that Justice will prevail, and that vengeance, where necessary, will be the responsibility and the doing of that Higher power.This discussion really highlights the inconsistency of saying abortion is wrong except in cases of rape, especially if your argument for abortion being wrong is that an unborn child has a right to life.
If I kill someone and claim self defense, but then my claim of self defense is proven to be wrong, would you say I should be charged only with giving the police false information? And if that analogy doesn't hold up for you, then what's the difference between that and the woman in our hypothetical case?
How many false allegations or police reports result in the death of a third party? I can’t see the legislation making a punishment for a false police report being on par with the punishment for ending a life.I think it would be reasonable to require a filed police report alleging the rape, in order to invoke a rape exception for abortion.
I see no value or benefit from charging the mother with premeditated murder due to a falsified rape allegation. The punishment for the false allegation/false police report should be sufficient, I would think.
Ah, I see. I guess I had assumed that you were saying that women would be legally punished for abortions, unless they filed a false rape report, in which case they would only get the penalty for the false report (my bad, I pretty sure I remember now that you'd already clarified this in a previous post.)Understand that my frame of reference is as a Christian. As such, I believe that, ultimately, we will each answer to a Higher power, that Justice will prevail, and that vengeance, where necessary, will be the responsibility and the doing of that Higher power.
With that background, I simply don't see a societal benefit in going after the women who have abortions. Make abortion illegal. Go after the abortion providers. I see no need to go after the women.
I have no problem with enhancing the penalty for filing such a false report. Just, as a matter of principle, I don't see value in charging, prosecuting, and punishing the women who have abortions.How many false allegations or police reports result in the death of a third party? I can’t see the legislation making a punishment for a false police report being on par with the punishment for ending a life.