Just took this course this weekend. Video

[fireblade]

Agreed 100%.




Good for you. Lots of genuine "operators" disagree with you. The example Frank cited was Henk Iverson. If you're an operator, you should know him by his reputation within that community. He requires eye protection on his range.

Back to the topic at hand, I find it unlikely that the training depicted in the video was exclusive to "operators." Finding a rational, compelling reason to forego eye protection in a class like that, especially when shooting around vehicles, is going to be difficult task. Whether or not "real operators" choose to wear eye protection or not really doesn't make the case.

Perhaps the naysayers have never been hit in the face with debris, secondary projectiles, or a variety of other things. I have. My glasses have the scratches and chips to prove it. I'm not training/practicing/learning without my eye protection, nor will I allow my students or anyone who is my responsibility. There are a multitude of reasons for wearing it & requiring it and the few that attempt to justify not doing so are weak.

lol am aware of him if you look close at picture before thats a south African RG-31.......... I will agree who in charge of the training or range its there rules ......military or civilian thats a constant rule
all i will say there a lot of training on the military side with weapons were safety glasses are not a factor......and the same time i understand your view on it........

This was my blood and my second purple heart ....... i really don't care what you think .........maybe if i had safety glasses on it would have stopped the bullet

 

[HICKMAN]

now you're just being a wise-ass

that's like saying we shouldn't wear seat belt cause we got **cked up in a car crash.

 

[the1kidd03]

How does wearing clear eye pro somehow make the experience less real?

It's tough to judge without being there or at least having a good understanding of the context but I saw several things in that video that I would never tolerate on a range (or anywhere else for that matter). The irony of saying that is that my stance on some very controversial training methods is fairly well known.

I couldn't even get the video to load to watch it...did I miss something there?

 

[esrice]

This was my blood and my 3rd purple heart ....... maybe if i had safety glasses on it would have stopped the bullet

Did you spill that in training or in combat?

 

[Chaz]

Hey guys,
Wow, thanx for the great banter! (I guess?) I'll try to do my best to answer your questions:

Was this an open enrollment class? If so, were there any prereq's?

As I understand, everyone there has been to 2-4 of their classes except 2 people. The instructors call or email everyone to get a feel for their abilities with a hand gun if they haven't been to a course with them. If they don't have enough experience, they are recommended to take a more "Beginner Course" and not allowed to take this one. They really are good instructors.

You are VERY welcome Fireblade!!! Thank you for your insight. I must say that I do wear eye and ear protection but, that is me. I also wear it everyday and all day with my job so it's not a nuisense. BUT!, aside from your reasoning and logic (which I agree with) I also believe we live in a free country and we should be responsible for ourselves. Anytime and all the time. Period. I believe that may have a little to do with why we carry? (I could REALLY go off on personal responsibility but, I will refrain. Read: Politics) And if someone gives us a choice, and we prefer to train, or do whatever, in a way that could and would only hurt ourselves, so be it. I must say, I'm not a seat belt fan either. My choice. If I get ticketed or worse, I don't *****. (forget you read that, LEO's )
Thank you again for stepping up.
Oh, BTW, I couldn't figure out what the window is or where? But, I'm glad for you, it was there!!!!!

I respect what you are saying, Frank... and the rest of you voicing that opinion, for that matter. If I am on your course, I will do as you say, exactly as you say it. It's "Your Course" and I'm not at Burger King. I am not entitled to be there. I request to be. But, as I said, I would be wearing them anyway.
Now, I ask you kindly, please don't ***** or bad mouth someone for giving people the right to choose regardless of what it is or even having a differing opinion. (I'm just asking, not telling)
No one was a minor there and, to me, that is the only time I think there MUST be mandatory regs., for obvious reasons. Everyone there was aware of the dangers involved and made their own choice. I respect that regardless of their decision. I also respect anyones right to choose, even if I think it's something/anything beyond the pale of ignorance in my eyes. They may see it different, and that is cool with me. Their choice. I may recommend or comment but, to call someone out, I'm sorry, that's wrong.

I too am someone who served this country for people's right to choose. I take it very seriously nowadays as, to me, our rights, and abilities to choose, are eroding everyday!!!! In almost EVERY way! I think we should all keep that in mind and do our best to try to swing the tide the other way. That is unless you believe in mandatory.... whatever. Then feel free to call me or whoever, whatever you want, and we can get into a pissing match of which wouldn't be worth my time but, I would have something to contribute.

Bottom line guys, I appreciate your concern and input but, the course was great and safe and I will be doing more with them. If you choose to never take a course from them, for some reason or another... that's cool. There are plenty other courses out there and I would recommend taking some.

I will post more pix and vids if they put them out.
Regards,
Chaz

Wow, the thread took off since I started writing this. I'm way behind!

 

[fireblade]

lol....ok i was being a wise -ass.......

 

[the1kidd03]

should also make it clear, for the purpose of this discussion...that in regards to the military....when you refer to "training"...you are not necessarily referring to the "basic" training or "basic"infantry" training...you should make that clear in posts...because there is extensive continuous training after all the entry crap....that training is your full time job, more or less and depending on your MOS of course

 

[fireblade]

Did you spill that in training or in combat?

that was from Iraq ....didn't find out are driver took the picture until later we were all pissed .........after that camera wasn't allowed on patrols.......it was 3 min. firefight just wing the arm ......later that year i got fubared from a IED and i was done after that.......never really recovered well enough to stay in retired last year......

 

[the1kidd03]

in regards to my previous post, I'd also like to make it clear that I was more referencing EAR pro.....I don't think I, or anyone I know in ANY unit trains WITHOUT eye pro, that I've ever heard of at least

 

[fireblade]

@chaz thank for the video and didn't mean to throw off your thread

 

[the1kidd03]

that was from Iraq ....didn't find out are driver took the picture until later we were all pissed .........after that camera wasn't allowed on patrols.......it was 3 min. firefight just wing the arm ......later that year i got fubared from a IED and i was done after that.......never really recovered well enough to stay in retired last year......

really the eye pro isn't going to do anything regardless.....it saves from small, more likely fragments but in combat it makes little difference beyond that..........I know a Gunny who got IED'd and lets just say if you knew him before, you wouldn't recognize him now...and he was wearing full gear, kevlar, eye pro, etc.......reasons like that are why that startup company in Morgan county started producing ballistic face shields

 

[Shay]

 

[Steve MI]

having trained with and taught many
i can tell you this a lot of SF and more do wear them
Not only to protect them but to also protect from fragments and other issues in some environments i asked some guys from a a group that were in class they said they were never without them one small issue can blow an entire op do to crap getting in there eyes

to each is own i guess

 

[HICKMAN]

of course, you know all of my time in the Signal Corps after the 2nd Armored Cav took its toll:

but I can still shoot

 

[rhino]

of course, you know all of my time in the Signal Corps after the 2nd Armored Cav took its toll:

Now THAT is some funny s***.

I need something to go with my year of ROTC. Maybe an overloaded pocket protector injury.

 

[fireblade]

wow i did not say we never do ..... ....there are some training we do not and some real life we do not..........


older picture some things are just dangerous live with it ......

 

[Chaz]

Thanx Steve. "To each his own" is exactly right. It's what those men in the pictures you posted were fighting for. I'm sure many wear "clears" as well. I would. But, it's my choice.
Thanx.

(now time to go watch "Justified" and watch some one else shoot without protection! LOLOL Just kiddin, just kiddin. Hold the flamin. )

 

[HICKMAN]

Wow, the thread took off since I started writing this. I'm way behind!

I don't mind eyes and ears, I don't mind 360 gun ranges, I don't know how many times a muzzle was in the face of the camera man...

 

[Steve MI]

wow in the training world we call that ride at Disney land.... there were so many issue there i cant even begin to describe it poor use of tactics, no round acountablity
from the looks of the berms and such were did those rounds from supine fire go?

speed rock, really with gun out in front of body?fail
holly cow.. i hope they have good insurance

 

[fireblade]

I don't mind eyes and ears, I don't mind 360 gun ranges, I don't know how many times a muzzle was in the face of the camera man...

ya .....that there was..... brave camera man