James Yeager - Iron Sights vs Optics

[Sgtusmc]

There was no standing at the 500 in the USMC qual course. It was prone, slow fire.

I was in from 88 to 94. 19 yrs ago. The fog of war has taken its toll on my memory. I could have swore i was standing and prone at the 500. I had to research it and yes it was 10 rounds in 10 minutes in the prone. As I was devil dog. Im reading theyre qualifying with acogs now, sheesh. In '88, I qualified as marksman and got the lowly pizza box in boot camp. I was pissed. I went on to tne FMF and qualified 6 times expert.

 

[devildog70]

I was in from 88 to 94. 19 yrs ago. The fog of war has taken its toll on my memory. I could have swore i was standing and prone at the 500. I had to research it and yes it was 10 rounds in 10 minutes in the prone. As I was devil dog. Im reading theyre qualifying with acogs now, sheesh. In '88, I qualified as marksman and got the lowly pizza box in boot camp. I was pissed. I went on to tne FMF and qualified 6 times expert.

I hear ya. I was in from 89-93. I'm lucky I remember what rifle I was issued

 

[andfc]

On the topic of comparing irons vs. a dot, I ran across this:

Defoor Proformance | Some new discoveries with irons. First some...

"Most( me included) would think the sight radius on an A1 would be best but ... I think I found the sweet position for accuracy and speed with irons. The measurement of sight radius is roughly 14”. The rear sight as far back as possible, the front one moved slightly back from forward. With myself and approximately 30 students of varying skill level, the accuracy increase was about 5% across the board minimum, some up to 8%. With this setup, I’m shooting the same 10 round, 100 yd, prone scores as I do with an RDS... RDS still has advantages- low light, switching shoulders, odd shooting position, gas mask, and the middle engagement distances; 15 to 75 yds."

I'd be interested if any of you guys who are really good with iron sights have done any similar experimentation.

 

[esrice]

On the topic of comparing irons vs. a dot, I ran across this:

I recently moved my front BUIS to this position, but did it out of necessity for my new weapon light mounted at 12 o'clock. I'm still not sure why he believes he saw accuracy gains.

 

[Sgtusmc]

On the topic of comparing irons vs. a dot, I ran across this:

Defoor Proformance | Some new discoveries with irons. First some...

"Most( me included) would think the sight radius on an A1 would be best but ... I think I found the sweet position for accuracy and speed with irons. The measurement of sight radius is roughly 14”. The rear sight as far back as possible, the front one moved slightly back from forward. With myself and approximately 30 students of varying skill level, the accuracy increase was about 5% across the board minimum, some up to 8%. With this setup, I’m shooting the same 10 round, 100 yd, prone scores as I do with an RDS... RDS still has advantages- low light, switching shoulders, odd shooting position, gas mask, and the middle engagement distances; 15 to 75 yds."

I'd be interested if any of you guys who are really good with iron sights have done any similar experimentation.

To me it plain doesnt make sence. Its all about simple geometry. Going to a shorter sight radius and saying you're gaining accuracy is like saying you get more accuracy from a pistol vs a rifle. Accuracy and aimpoint response time are two different things. Aiming a long stick takes a little longer than aiming a short stick but its a give and take between speed and accuracy of the angle. It sounds like he's talking more CQB than long range.

15, 75 or even 100 yds is at the short range of distance that an m16, ar15, m4 can hit its target. Bringing your sight radius back to 14" from 20" is only going to make a difference out to further distances when slight movements of the rifle will make you lose sight alignment.

 

[rhino]

It's possible that position is better for his eyes to focus on the front sight.

 

[Small's]

I have a 4moa red dot on a 16" AR and while laying on the ground and using the 30rd clip as a little bipod i have no problem hitting man sized targets center mass at 300-400yards. A red dot shot be fine in all but the really long shots. My favorite is setup so far that ive used is a burris xtr 1-4 30mm. On 1x with the reticle illuminated its just about as fast as a red dot and on 4x it is good enough to use the full effective range + of the 5.56 in a short barrel gun.