Jail

[cce1302]

This is especially good for business when we no longer expect the prisons to be self-supporting to the extent they can be. At one time, the DOC raised and prepared all the food and most of the furniture internally. Our older prisons were constructed by the inmates, right down to quarrying stone and making bricks. Politics, cronyism, and labor unions conspired to bring this to an end, and the present efforts at reversing the trend are focused more on the reallocation of money than the elimination of the need to spend it.

I will also point out that neither law enforcement nor custody of inmates should be in the hands of private enterprise. It is a public function which should be untouched by the profit motive.

If only we could get "public function" and "profit motive" to be mutually exclusive, we'd have progress.

 

[IndyDave1776]

If only we could get "public function" and "profit motive" to be mutually exclusive, we'd have progress.

Unfortunately, I don't see it happening any time soon.

 

[Fargo]

I don't think that should be a surprise to anyone. Jail is typically for arrests waiting for trial and for sentences of less than one year. Serious crimes with longer sentences go to prisons. (Sometimes problem inmates will go to prison while waiting for trial, so there are exceptions)

Who's out doing most of your petty crimes, getting locked up for fighting, possession of dope, drunken stupidity, etc? Mostly young guys. Old guys are too tired to fight and don't want to miss 60 minutes. Middle aged guys have too much to lose and have jobs to keep.

Admit it men, most of us are vaguely surprised we survived our 20's. We weren't that smart, and we sure weren't as worldly and wise as we thought we were. We were invincible and our decision making reflected that. Oh, and the things we did in pursuit of skirts. The drinking, the fighting, the fast cars...the walking through the Taco Bell drive-through at 3 am explaining you don't have a car because you're drunk but still want some tacos...its a wonder more of us didn't get locked up, come to think of it.

There are many in my jurisdiction who have perfected the drunk/drugged up misdemeanor. I (unoriginally) refer to them as "serving a life sentence 180 days at a time". They maintain a first name basis relationship with the cops, jailers, and public defenders. Relatively few pull out of the spiral and most die fairly young of an OD or some sort of drunken accident. A few do though...

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Hmmm. Take that prison population graph and overlay this one:

Interesting.

 

[cop car]

Another surprising stat: in one generation, the number of prisoners has ballooned 8x in size.

Yeah... Well right about that time coke, heroine, and every other major drug came onto the scene, as well as the Colombian cartels. Also this is about the time same that the federal crusade on the European crime families was victorious... While I don't support what the Italian, Sicilian, Russian etc mobs/mafias did/do... I do believe that they were a "sanctioning body" of sorts for crime. And that they wouldn't get that far out of line because they were in it for the long haul, and had "rules". Criminal elements now a days are not afraid of the law, are very short sided and don't follow any rules for the most part. While its a dirty slimy job, I think the mafia had a place in our society and the systematic attacking and dismantling of them created a vacuum of crime and splintered into something that couldn't be controlled (unlike the mafia, that could be at least somewhat controlled)

95-99% of all crimes involve drugs or a drug user.

 

[rambone]

Hmmm. Take that prison population graph and overlay this one:

Interesting.

Lets assume the two graphs are directly related an not the product of an infinite number of uncontrolled variables.

Do you think the ends justify the means?

Sure, millions of harmless people have their lives ruined because of the Drug War. Sure, millions of breadwinners are imprisoned while their children grow up fatherless on welfare. Sure, multitudes of children are stolen from loving parents. Sure, it costs hundreds of billions of dollars. Sure, America has become the prison capital of the world. Sure, our rights have been slashed in virtually every area. Sure, the USA hasn't seen a balanced budget in our lifetimes. Sure, government has grown to epic proportions.

But crime is down... and that's all that matters. More than freedom or justice.

Is it a good argument?

Arresting people because of their personal habits in the hopes that they are prevented from someday victimizing somebody is "pre-crime."

 

[DRob]

In some counties certain last names are considered an element of probably cause!

 

[IndyDave1776]

Hmmm. Take that prison population graph and overlay this one:

Interesting.

Apparently the crimes per capita are decreasing while the absolute number of incarcerated inmates increased and appears to have leveled off. It is still strange that the world's ne plus ultra free society has the highest per capita incarceration in the world.

 

[ModernGunner]

Good, lock up more drug users! If we could get 'em ALL locked up, then we'd just need to worry about the 'normal' criminals!

It's called "recidivism" and when I first started at DoC, we were told it was about 85%. Saw more than one convict released and right back at the door LESS than 24 hours later.

That's known as being 'institutionalized', and that's a lot of guys, of all ages, races, religions, etc.

 

[Leo]

Yeah... Well right about that time coke, heroine, and every other major drug came onto the scene, as well as the Colombian cartels. Also this is about the time same that the federal crusade on the European crime families was victorious... While I don't support what the Italian, Sicilian, Russian etc mobs/mafias did/do... I do believe that they were a "sanctioning body" of sorts for crime. And that they wouldn't get that far out of line because they were in it for the long haul, and had "rules". Criminal elements now a days are not afraid of the law, are very short sided and don't follow any rules for the most part. While its a dirty slimy job, I think the mafia had a place in our society and the systematic attacking and dismantling of them created a vacuum of crime and splintered into something that couldn't be controlled (unlike the mafia, that could be at least somewhat controlled)

95-99% of all crimes involve drugs or a drug user.

My Grandfather was an immigrant who was an endentured servant to one of the strawbosses who supplied grunt labor in the mills. As an adult he settled in Gary, IN during the properous times. He openly talked about "the boys" who ran bootlegging, etc. He talked about business owners who paid street "tax". He said the tax was not that much and the boys kept the streets safe, so it was worth it. If some punks came to town and started anything, they were delt with fast and for good. They kept gambling, booze, and other vices in the shadows and left clean living people alone. He blamed the government for clearing out the system that worked and protected the streets so people could live. I remember riding the bus shopping with my grandmother and the streets were full of shoppers. I would see movies at the Glen theater while she got her hair done.

After the gov cleared the boys out the gov kept charging their tax and not giving anything back. Every punk that came to town was able to tear the place down. Now Broadway is empty, boarded up buildings, well built homes are not worth the price of a years property tax. Hardworking, law abiding families fled the sinking ship, making room for more negative residents. I do not have to tell you the problems that still exist in Gary to this day.

I am not saying I think that is right, but that is the way it was in his experience. I do fully believe the fall of our cities has been directly proportional to the politicians not doing their jobs. And the cycle continues.

 

[Expat]

It appears that arresting violent criminals and incarcerating them reduces the crime rate... Glad someone tried that...

 

[reno]

I have a Bible Study at our local Jail. I can tell you that several return for varied reasons. Some really do get serious about changing their lives. Some just care about what they have to do to deal with what is on their plate right now. They are the ones who generally return. Meth is a big issue, but heroine is taking over. they say to stay away from triggers when they get out. so they get out and go right back to the old friends, which are what? The biggest trigger there is in most cases.
It takes quite a bit to stay away from maybe your family? Friends you have had since grade school. Many start in grade school or what I call Jr. High or middle school. Some have never had a drivers license and are in their forties. Never had a job,
Family is a big deal. Most that I see have had a tough time growing up. No excuse at all, none. and no sympathy from me really. But they had no parenting at all. And there are some that did but still made bad decisions.
The ones that really try and change, come to grips with where they are and get through it and then start over. That takes more than just talkinga about it to.

One guy was 47 years old. Been in and out for over thirty years. never had been in a church or ever opened a Bible. But over the course of a couple of years he came to know God.
He ended up writing a letter to the judge, said exactly what he did, what he did not do. Asked the judge the sentence him to 8 years so he could get that behind him and go on with the rest of his life.
The judge did exactly that. He is out now and it is a daily struggle for him. Old friends constantly are contacting him.

I've had convicted murderers in class, but a lot of gang members, lots and lots of drug addicts.
Some will never change. I have had some tell me that when they get out, they will be on a pipe before they leave the parking lot. Unfortunately they are probably dead now.
You can see the changes that take over their lives. One nineteen year old girl, beautiful girl, good family, but got on heroine, over the course of years she aged probably 25 years in about three years.
Sorry to go on, but there is a cycle to this that has a strangle hold on some people. Some of the so called programs are nothing more than an association of triggers. The one thing addicts do not need.
I have found some jobs. try to stay in touch to help, but sometimes contact is lost and alll of a sudden they turn up.
I'm the last person they want to see sometimes.

Did not mean to go on so, but stopping the re-offender is more than just political or cheap talk.

 

[Leo]

reno, Thanks for what you do. The serving of a sentence to "repay the debt to society" does not do much good if the guy gets out with the same mindset. A complete change of heart, and the change in attitudes that results is needed for the person to change his actions. Keep up the good work!

 

[Destro]

Lets assume the two graphs are directly related an not the product of an infinite number of uncontrolled variables.

Do you think the ends justify the means?

Sure, millions of harmless people have their lives ruined because of the Drug War. Sure, millions of breadwinners are imprisoned while their children grow up fatherless on welfare. Sure, multitudes of children are stolen from loving parents. Sure, it costs hundreds of billions of dollars. Sure, America has become the prison capital of the world. Sure, our rights have been slashed in virtually every area. Sure, the USA hasn't seen a balanced budget in our lifetimes. Sure, government has grown to epic proportions.

But crime is down... and that's all that matters. More than freedom or justice.

Is it a good argument?

Arresting people because of their personal habits in the hopes that they are prevented from someday victimizing somebody is "pre-crime."

Millions of harmless people?? laughable

The biggest problem with drugs is the robbing shooting and stealing that follow them.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Millions of harmless people?? laughable

The biggest problem with drugs is the robbing shooting and stealing that follow them.

In that case they should be arrested and tried for robbing, shooting, and stealing, not for consuming a substance. My hobbies can be expensive as well, but I do not engage in criminal behavior to finance them.

 

[24Carat]

Needed coursework title: " Developmental Characteristics of Contemporary Feral Youth " .

 

[Destro]

In that case they should be arrested and tried for robbing, shooting, and stealing, not for consuming a substance. My hobbies can be expensive as well, but I do not engage in criminal behavior to finance them.

Drugs as a hobby is not very conducive to a career, meth and crack heads tend to have a problem attaining tenure

 

[IndyDave1776]

Drugs as a hobby is not very conducive to a career, meth and crack heads tend to have a problem attaining tenure

Perhaps so, but this comes down to an argument similar to proposing that we castrate all adult males in order to prevent rape.

 

[Hexlobular]

...Drugs as a hobby is not very conducive to a career...

I know a few people that would be in a much better way if they only understood this one simple thing...

 

[Leadeye]

Drugs are a business, either legalize them or crucify a drug dealer every 100 yards on the interstate highway.