It’s Time To Start Freaking Out About Oil Prices

[Bowman78]

level.eleven

my question was not answered as to where hydrogen cones from? How it is derived..... Even though it is the worlds most abundent element it has to be separated from oxygen atoms through eletrolosis or through what I believe to be steam reformation from natural gases, both of which use considerable energy which negates the effect of the hydrogens so called green benefits..... But lets not let science get in the way of politics... There is no such thing as free energy........

 

[Wwwildthing]

And for those of us that require Vehicles with Hp and Torque how is Hydrogen a viable option?!

Only about 20 percent of the thermal-energy content of gasoline is converted into mechanical work. If you pay $5.00 a gallon, only $2.00 worth of energy actually gets to the wheels.

Natural-gas vehicles use the same basic principles as gasoline-powered vehicles. The biggest advantage of NGVs is that they reduce environmentally harmful emissions. Natural-gas vehicles can achieve up to a 93 percent reduction in carbon monoxide emissions, 33 percent reduction in emissions of various oxides of nitrogen and a 50 percent reduction in reactive hydrocarbons when compared to gasoline vehicles. Efficiency rating is 40 percent.

The efficiency of an electric car is 72 percent for the car, 40 percent for the power plant and 90 percent for charging the car. That gives an overall efficiency of 26 percent.

A hydrogen-powered fuel cell, has a overall efficiency of about 64 percent and emits water at the tailpipe.

The problem (regarding change) is one of infrastructure... if we're going to make such a move, hydrogen is the better, long-term solution.

http://youtu.be/4AUurBnLbJw

 

[jeremy]

Only about 20 percent of the thermal-energy content of gasoline is converted into mechanical work. If you pay $5.00 a gallon, only $2.00 worth of energy actually gets to the wheels.

Natural-gas vehicles use the same basic principles as gasoline-powered vehicles. The biggest advantage of NGVs is that they reduce environmentally harmful emissions. Natural-gas vehicles can achieve up to a 93 percent reduction in carbon monoxide emissions, 33 percent reduction in emissions of various oxides of nitrogen and a 50 percent reduction in reactive hydrocarbons when compared to gasoline vehicles. Efficiency rating is 40 percent.

The efficiency of an electric car is 72 percent for the car, 40 percent for the power plant and 90 percent for charging the car. That gives an overall efficiency of 26 percent.

A hydrogen-powered fuel cell, has a overall efficiency of about 64 percent and emits water at the tailpipe.

The problem (regarding change) is one of infrastructure... if we're going to make such a move, hydrogen is the better, long-term solution.

The problem though is I am not 2 kids and a gym bag. I am moving several thousand pounds around on a regular basis. Propane, and NG have been tried and in light trucks and Cars with great success. In Tractors and Medium and up Trucks with dismal results.

What out there is better than Diesel for those that need power...

 

[Wwwildthing]

The problem though is I am not 2 kids and a gym bag. I am moving several thousand pounds around on a regular basis. Propane, and NG have been tried and in light trucks and Cars with great success. In Tractors and Medium and up Trucks with dismal results.

What out there is better than Diesel for those that need power...

They're using natural gas powered toters on the docks in San Francisco, San Diego and the east coast with great success. In fact, Kenworth and Peterbuilt have NG powered semi's on the road now.

I'd say your info is out of date.

 

[buford t justice]

Saw a special on Iceland they have city buses running on hydrogen,can't imagine anyone driving something heavier than that as a daily driver.

 

[Theslab1]

No new news about not pumping our own. Philosophy is use/buy other countries resources and save our own. Send troops to Middle East to "protect US interests". Lots of powerful people pulling strings around the world.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

.... Propane, and NG have been tried and in light trucks and Cars with great success. In Tractors and Medium and up Trucks with dismal results.


What out there is better than Diesel for those that need power...

Respectfully, sir - that's pure Iguana . Many of the city bus fleets in America have been running CNG for 20 years or more. I worked my way through college driving and dispatching for one such fleet. I graduated from UC Davis (yeah the pepper spray place) in 1991. The main issue has been one of economics - but with the advent of frakking, the price of NG has DROPPED significantly over the last few years while the price of Diesel has gone UP significantly. NG spiked to $15 a few years back - it's currently at $3-4. What has Diesel done over the last 5 years?? For over the road trucks, it's just a matter of building filling stations and infrastructure to support them. Also changing over the injection systems and fuel storage systems on the vehicles. In our fleet, the engines in question were the same Detroit Diesel 6V92's in either case - just different fuel handling/.injecting systems.

 

[slackerisme]

my question was not answered as to where hydrogen cones from? How it is derived..... Even though it is the worlds most abundent element it has to be separated from oxygen atoms through eletrolosis or through what I believe to be steam reformation from natural gases, both of which use considerable energy which negates the effect of the hydrogens so called green benefits..... But lets not let science get in the way of politics... There is no such thing as free energy........

They freeze the air, the various gasses fall out at different levels.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

Engineered organism secretes fuel, biotech firm says - The Denver Post

That is right... it poops fuel

Think of it like a plant... it TAKES IN carbon dioxide, offsetting the pollutants that are expelled when it is used.

When they can figure out how to cheaply gather the fuel... voila...

A longer article:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1361814/Scientists-make-diesel-fuel-using-sun-water-carbon-dioxide.html

They believe they can be operating commercially within two years, with current estimates at $30 per barrel.

 

[spencer rifle]

Ain't scared. Two 50+mpg Geos and an all-electric Honda Civic keep our transportation costs to a minimum.

For detailed info on electric vs. gasoline stats, see here:
Electro Automotive: FAQ on Electric Car Efficiency & Pollution
Nothing there on hydrogen or NG. Hydrogen looks like the future - good power density, no more dangerous than gasoline, clean - but the infrastructure is just not there yet. More efficient batteries in the future will make electric look even better than it does now. By the time I have to replace my battery pack (8 to 10 years) there will most likely be something much better available (if we can just avoid the Coming Economic Collapse).

 

[INMIline]

Many more will think like you. 10 years and around town trips will be made with electric cars, long range with gas. Oil prices won't be coming down. The middle east needs as much money as possible to branch out into other means of income. Right now oil is their main source.

Ain't scared. Two 50+mpg Geos and an all-electric Honda Civic keep our transportation costs to a minimum.

 

[WyldeShot]

Hopefully gas prices won't rise too much in the US. Sounds like we have a little extra on hand right now!
Gasoline: The next big U.S. export - Dec. 5, 2011

 

[CarmelHP]

my question was not answered as to where hydrogen cones from? How it is derived..... Even though it is the worlds most abundent element it has to be separated from oxygen atoms through eletrolosis or through what I believe to be steam reformation from natural gases, both of which use considerable energy which negates the effect of the hydrogens so called green benefits..... But lets not let science get in the way of politics... There is no such thing as free energy........

I think you answered your own question correctly.

 

[jeremy]

They're using natural gas powered toters on the docks in San Francisco, San Diego and the east coast with great success. In fact, Kenworth and Peterbuilt have NG powered semi's on the road now.

I'd say your info is out of date.

My Info could very well be out of Date.

Let me check to see if I can find a Refuel point for a NG semi within my local...

Respectfully, sir - that's pure Iguana . Many of the city bus fleets in America have been running CNG for 20 years or more. I worked my way through college driving and dispatching for one such fleet. I graduated from UC Davis (yeah the pepper spray place) in 1991. The main issue has been one of economics - but with the advent of frakking, the price of NG has DROPPED significantly over the last few years while the price of Diesel has gone UP significantly. NG spiked to $15 a few years back - it's currently at $3-4. What has Diesel done over the last 5 years?? For over the road trucks, it's just a matter of building filling stations and infrastructure to support them. Also changing over the injection systems and fuel storage systems on the vehicles. In our fleet, the engines in question were the same Detroit Diesel 6V92's in either case - just different fuel handling/.injecting systems.

Could be pure Iguana ****....

What are those of us in the Ag Industry to do. There is not a NG line within 15 Miles of Our Place. Drive to town every time I need Fuel?!

Not to mention the costs of switching the Machinery out, with the price of a New John Deere 8360 Tractor (That is a rather Small Machine) starting at $300,000 and the Prices go up from there. Even switching out the tractors to NG as you suggested would be an expensive option. I do not have Tax Payers funding me Checkbook...