Issues in Caliber, Gabe Suarez (must read)

[ATM]

...the 10th St. ATMs...

Huh... I didn't know my old gang still existed.

 

[Comp]

You know, this article is really a must read. I enjoyed it and it contained some valid points. Makes me reconsider 9mm XDM with 19+1 or a FN 5-7 with 20+1. That 5 7 makes me drool but it would probably over penetrate as a defensive handgun

 

[redneckpastor]

i agree, a great read and also a must read!!! more bullets means more chances to hit the bad guy! and more chances to hit them means more chance of you not getting hit!!

 

[Disposable Heart]

I think the biggest thing that Gabe is getting at is shot placement, but also going in with "sufficient" ammo, not necessarily ammo capacity. Prepare to fight with the ammo capacity you have and use every round effectively (placed shots) as opposed to spraying down a general area. You have a 1911, great. No issue there. But be prepared to cope with reloading if IF IF! your ammo fails. Same issue with smaller calibers. Be prepared to follow up shoot many times and reload if IF IF! your ammo fails too.

To be honest: folks that spout .45 .45 .45 all day, but can't shoot worth crap really show their ballistic knowledge. Folks called me crazy for carrying 255gr lead round nose loads or 230gr ball when I was carrying .45, but hey, if I can fill a bad dude's chest and face full of 'em in short order, I should not be lacking capability. I have been carrying .38s and 9mm lately. Still no issue in my mind. I was always taught shoot until failure, whether it be via gun failure, ammo lacking failure, bad guy failure and me failure.

Rippingly good read!

 

[bigcraig]

Although I am not a GS worshiper, I agree with his article on this subject.

 

[dbd870]

I've said before.... "without shot placement, it doesn't matter how many rounds you shoot."

Yep; awareness, tactics and alibilty with the weapon are so much more important than all the caliber war nonsense.

 

[kingnereli]

I think having lots of bullets is important, mostly because no one know what an attacker(s) will do. It goes back to questions of will they totally flee the area? How many will flee? Will some pull their own guns? Etc. etc. My guess is that if you look at common gun battles, not that many round are needed before it is over. Either someone is shot and/or dead, the attacker takes off, or the good guy is able to flee the area to safety. As such, to me, capacity is just about being as prepared as possible.

I don't care about 9mm, .45. or .40S&W. To me, there is no proof at all that any of them put down people any better than the other. It is all about shot placement, the person being shot, etc.. When I see a police video of an officer fighting with someone on the side of the road, and that guy takes a .45 to the gut and keeps fighting....it goes to show you that even a gun might not be the end all. The gun is just a tool, and there are many of them. If a person is willing to carry multiple magazines, that really isn't that big of issue, unless the attackers don't flee, then it might be an issue. Obviously we all can't, don't want to carry around 9mm Glocks with 33round magazines, even though they are available. I personally love the idea of a snub nose revolver in .357 for self-defense, especially one with an enclosed hammer, or spur-less hammer (so it doesn't get caught on clothing/coming out of a pocket/purse). The problem I have with those is that there seems to be a trend toward groups attacks. The guy doing the main robberies at the 10th St. ATMs is said to have an accomplice. Another strong arm robbery attempt I know about had the guy flee to a vehicle and get in, obviously an accomplice if you ask me.

The fact we are seeing these multiple attacker attacks makes me want to maximize my preparedness. If it wasn't for me being issued a weapon from work, one that I have tons of practice with (which helps if something goes wrong...ie: Innocent by standard hurt, etc.), I would likely be carrying an HK USP as my primary gun. However, the idea of being able to carry 19+1 of 9mm in an XDm is really something that would make me take a look. With my DeSantis holster, I am easily able to carry a full size gun with a spare mag. That would give one 39 rounds of 9mm, available if need be.

I agree with almost everything you said. The exception is that I think there is sufficient evidence to put a pecking order of effectiveness (though, admittedly marginal) between different handgun rounds even with all the variables and exceptions present in an issue like this. My only issue with choosing a defensive handgun based solely on capacity is that I can't think of a scenario that isn't purely hypothetical where the deciding factor in survival is magazine capacity.

I've done some force on force training and, from my experience, the times the people playing the good guy successfully defended themselves the difference was how much ammo was left over. Whether it was airsoft or simunitions we would load the number of rounds that we normally carry. When the scenario was over the "low" capacity guys were about ready for a reload and the high capacity guys had plenty left over.

I completely agree with preparedness. Like I said, I carry as much ammo as I can manage. It is just as much .45 as I can manage. I truly feel that it will be my awareness, ability to stay calm and make hits that will decide my fate rather then capacity. Most civilian gun fights are 3 to 5 rounds. Therefore, I can't justify switching to a caliber I am not altogether comfortable with so that I can carry 15 or more in one magazine.

ETA: An XDm9 is on my shortlist of future purchases. It will be mostly a range gun because .45 is sooooo expensive.

 

[chraland51]

I think, after reading everything ahead of my post, that I will just stop using a CZ82 in 9x18 for vehicle protection, a Taurus 1911 in my travel suitcase and a Bersa Thunder in .380 in my bedroom chest of drawers and just start carrying around my Ruger Super Redhawk in .480 Ruger. The guy at Bradis that sold me that gun guaranteed me that it will easily bring down everything in north and south America and all, but a couple of things in Africa. I did not want to go bigger with a S&W .500, S&W .460, .454 Casulls, or .475 Linebaugh. I am just not man enough for those calibres. Did I leave any of the other big boys out that are larger than the .44 amgnum?

 

[kingnereli]

I think, after reading everything ahead of my post, that I will just stop using a CZ82 in 9x18 for vehicle protection, a Taurus 1911 in my travel suitcase and a Bersa Thunder in .380 in my bedroom chest of drawers and just start carrying around my Ruger Super Redhawk in .480 Ruger. The guy at Bradis that sold me that gun guaranteed me that it will easily bring down everything in north and south America and all, but a couple of things in Africa. I did not want to go bigger with a S&W .500, S&W .460, .454 Casulls, or .475 Linebaugh. I am just not man enough for those calibres. Did I leave any of the other big boys out that are larger than the .44 amgnum?

You left out .50 AE.

 

[ChalupaCabras]

hmmm...perhaps its time to make my pt99 my primary HD weapon since it has 17+1 instead of my 1911

I keep an AR-15 loaded with frangible bullets. 30 rounds of Remington varmint ammo in the gun, and another mag loaded and ready.

I will be shooting a LOT, and I realize that in the hat of the moment, most of those rounds wont hit the target. Frangible ammo limits my liability.

 

[redneckpastor]

I keep an AR-15 loaded with frangible bullets. 30 rounds of Remington varmint ammo in the gun, and another mag loaded and ready.

I will be shooting a LOT, and I realize that in the hat of the moment, most of those rounds wont hit the target. Frangible ammo limits my liability.

now if i could only stick that in my pocket. i would be the man

 

[jmb79]

I think Comp stated it correctly. It's time to trade my Glock 17 in for a Springfield Armory XD-M. Not.

 

[redneckpastor]

I think Comp stated it correctly. It's time to trade my Glock 17 in for a Springfield Armory XD-M. Not.

got to love the GLOCK!! not the biggest fan of the XD-M, but i hear they are good guns!!

 

[jmb79]

got to love the GLOCK!! not the biggest fan of the XD-M, but i hear they are good guns!!

A friend of mine purchased a 9mm XD-M at the last Indy 1500. I got to shoot the XD-M this past Wednesday. For my hands, the pistol's ergonomics are good (the medium sized backstrap was installed) and it was very accurate. The trigger was nice too except for having a relatively long (as compared to Glocks and my 1911s) reset. I wouldn't give up a Glock for the XD-M but it seems like a nice pistol.