Is a revolution coming?

[SavageEagle]

I'm going to have a revolution tomorrow, about 7:00... at GT South's.

We will be VICTORIOUS!!

I had a revolution. Then I flushed it.

I wish I could go. I comprimised though. I go to JUST the Gun Show and skip the meal, she'll go shooting Sunday at Atterbury!

 

[model67a]

Original intent of the 2A

For the people to retain arms to guard against a tyranical government was the original intent of the Second Ammendment . Today it is more of a deterrent so that the actual act will not occur. Think about it. The government would have to be completely stupid to try to rule the people. There are too many civilian guns and the standing military they have wouldn't support it. Even if they did have thoughts of it they know they could never pull it off. Instead of gun and a physical force we have a weapon that is much more effective. The vote is something everyone in government fears and there is no violence involved. This is a much better solution with no bloodsed. But there may be a lot of tears shed if the politicians don't get their act together. stay safe

 

[flagtag]

For the people to retain arms to guard against a tyranical government was the original intent of the Second Ammendment . Today it is more of a deterrent so that the actual act will not occur. Think about it. The government would have to be completely stupid to try to rule the people. There are too many civilian guns and the standing military they have wouldn't support it. Even if they did have thoughts of it they know they could never pull it off. Instead of gun and a physical force we have a weapon that is much more effective. The vote is something everyone in government fears and there is no violence involved. This is a much better solution with no bloodsed. But there may be a lot of tears shed if the politicians don't get their act together. stay safe

If the government can fix it so that illegal aliens can vote (for them of course), what makes you think they won't try to create a "situation" and suspend the vote - especially if they believe that a candidate might be able to defeat them. (You might recall that Pelosi and friends threatened "Martial Law" if the stimulus package wasn't passed) Just how far would they be willing to go?

 

[Dr Falken]

Well if you give foreign nationals citizenship for joining our military, seems to me you've already given them the vote and a gun. Just ask the Romans about their Goth and Visigoth mercenaries.

 

[flagtag]

Well if you give foreign nationals citizenship for joining our military, seems to me you've already given them the vote and a gun. Just ask the Romans about their Goth and Visigoth mercenaries.

Those who are willing to defend our country (military/police) deserve citizenship - after all, they are risking their lives for our country and are "giving back".

Those who just suck our services dry without contributing anything of real value (service to our country) in return do NOT deserve ANYTHING. They are leeches and contribute only to the financial ruin of our country. The cost of everything is higher because of the moneys going to support them.
There is a huge difference.

 

[HICKMAN]

Our vote won't matter before long, amnesty is coming and we will be more than out numbered.

 

[hookedonjeep]

I would have to say not close yet..... emphasizing yet. In an infinite universe, anything is possible. I pray for the sake of my children that it does not, as I cannot imagine the hardships they would face.... I hope that we as a society can avoid that bitter end..... and if not, then I hope the lawyers go first!

 

[SavageEagle]

<snip>
Instead of gun and a physical force we have a weapon that is much more effective. The vote is something everyone in government fears and there is no violence involved. This is a much better solution with no bloodsed. But there may be a lot of tears shed if the politicians don't get their act together. stay safe

Our vote won't matter before long, amnesty is coming and we will be more than out numbered.

What I don't understand is why you guys think that popular vote actually counts when it comes to who actually gets office. At least for President that is. Electorial College comes to mind...

For my family's sake, I pray they never have to see blodshed. Ever. Unfortunately, with they way the entire WORLD has been in this downward spiral, I don't see how it will be avoided.

Seriously. Look at everything that's been going on for the last century all across the world. You can't seriously think that the cold war ever really ended, right? Terrorism. Corruption. All out civil war in MANY countries, sometimes all at once.

Think what will happen to the world if America had a Revolution. In these times. It won't be pretty, at least not in my mind. Think about the invaders we would be open to. Easy for any enemy to destroy us. For anyone to start any kind of revolution would be devastating. If there is no other choice (all out power grab by the Gooberment) then it's going to happen and none of us can stop it.

Why do you think the politicians are all treading lightly right now? They don't want it to happen for their own reasons. I'm not them so I don't know what they are thinking or why, but it would be bad for all of us as a whole. They have to know this. I mean obamatard was on Leno and they picked him with a fine tooth comb. He's also been quick to throw things under the rug and try to look positive by blowing smoke up everyones butts. Pelosi and Reed decrying gun legislation when you know they want it to pass.

We need to ride the storm out as long as possible and hope to land on our feet. Let no one ever cross the line. Be prepared. Pray.

Write and encourage others to write their Reps.

 

[dburkhead]

What I don't understand is why you guys think that popular vote actually counts when it comes to who actually gets office. At least for President that is. Electorial College comes to mind...

The popular vote counts because it determines who the Electors will vote for (with the vote being by state rather than by person). While you might argue that the Electoral College could completely ignore the candidates folk actually "voted for" and put anybody into office when, exactly, was the last time that happened?

The Electoral College, like the idea of having one house of the legislature having a proportional representation according to population and another having equal representation per state, is an effort to balance the problem of having a handful of more populous states potentially completely driving the election (purely proportional representation) vs. having several smaller states with small populations becoming the tail that wags the dog (equal representation by state). While I think the Electoral College is less successful at that than the structure of Congress (which has been getting worse at that balance in recent decades, IMO), it's not the fount of all evil that some make it out to be.

 

[Scutter01]

The popular vote counts because it determines who the Electors will vote for (with the vote being by state rather than by person). While you might argue that the Electoral College could completely ignore the candidates folk actually "voted for" and put anybody into office when, exactly, was the last time that happened?

The Electoral College, like the idea of having one house of the legislature having a proportional representation according to population and another having equal representation per state, is an effort to balance the problem of having a handful of more populous states potentially completely driving the election (purely proportional representation) vs. having several smaller states with small populations becoming the tail that wags the dog (equal representation by state). While I think the Electoral College is less successful at that than the structure of Congress (which has been getting worse at that balance in recent decades, IMO), it's not the fount of all evil that some make it out to be.

Repped for understanding why we have an Electoral College.

 

[Bill of Rights]

What I don't understand is why you guys think that popular vote actually counts when it comes to who actually gets office. At least for President that is. Electorial College comes to mind...

That is true, we do have the Electoral College, Ryan. Quick question: Who do you think picks which electors get to cast their votes? Consider as well the other benefit of the EC: Representation. Granted, NY, OH, and CA have more electors than we do, but consider that NYC has more people than the whole state of, say, Wyoming. You would expect them to get more votes. This has not, so far, kept GOP candidates, for whom NYC does not normally vote, out of office.

For my family's sake, I pray they never have to see blodshed. Ever. Unfortunately, with they way the entire WORLD has been in this downward spiral, I don't see how it will be avoided.

It will be delayed, maybe (MAYBE) even prevented by the eternal vigilence of men and women who watch those who we elect to govern and who will not hesitate to call out those who do so irresponsibly. Too, it will be prevented by those same people and others like them who refuse to vote criminals back into positions of power.

Seriously. Look at everything that's been going on for the last century all across the world. You can't seriously think that the cold war ever really ended, right? Terrorism. Corruption. All out civil war in MANY countries, sometimes all at once.

Think what will happen to the world if America had a Revolution. In these times. It won't be pretty, at least not in my mind. Think about the invaders we would be open to. Easy for any enemy to destroy us. For anyone to start any kind of revolution would be devastating. If there is no other choice (all out power grab by the Gooberment) then it's going to happen and none of us can stop it.

Far too fatalistic. "none of us can stop it" makes it sound like you've all but given up. Sure, the enemies might wish to enter and plunder at our expense, but even today, I think they will find that proverbial rifle behind every blade of grass.

Why do you think the politicians are all treading lightly right now? They don't want it to happen for their own reasons. I'm not them so I don't know what they are thinking or why, but it would be bad for all of us as a whole. They have to know this. I mean obamatard was on Leno and they picked him with a fine tooth comb. He's also been quick to throw things under the rug and try to look positive by blowing smoke up everyones butts. Pelosi and Reed decrying gun legislation when you know they want it to pass.

We need to ride the storm out as long as possible and hope to land on our feet. Let no one ever cross the line. Be prepared. Pray.

Write and encourage others to write their Reps.

While I do not disagree with letting the reps know so they don't do anything more stupid than they already have, I think that passing the word and getting others to do likewise is equally important. It's kind of like dealing with a snarling dog; you have to keep saying "nice doggy, nice doggy" while you're looking for a stick... or drawing your pistol.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[SavageEagle]

The popular vote counts because it determines who the Electors will vote for (with the vote being by state rather than by person). While you might argue that the Electoral College could completely ignore the candidates folk actually "voted for" and put anybody into office when, exactly, was the last time that happened?

Bush and Gore. Not that I wanted Gore to win, but Gore won the popular vote and should have been the man to deal with 9/11.

That is true, we do have the Electoral College, Ryan. Quick question: Who do you think picks which electors get to cast their votes? Consider as well the other benefit of the EC: Representation. Granted, NY, OH, and CA have more electors than we do, but consider that NYC has more people than the whole state of, say, Wyoming. You would expect them to get more votes. This has not, so far, kept GOP candidates, for whom NYC does not normally vote, out of office.

If we have the popular vote, why should the EC exist? If New York state was split 50/50 those "electors" for NY would basiclly say all of NY is for Candidate A when in fact it was split even between A and B. How is that fair?

It will be delayed, maybe (MAYBE) even prevented by the eternal vigilence of men and women who watch those who we elect to govern and who will not hesitate to call out those who do so irresponsibly. Too, it will be prevented by those same people and others like them who refuse to vote criminals back into positions of power.

What if your vote is cancelled by 2 dead people's votes? ACORN comes to mind... Voting CAN be manipulated. The vote is powerful, but can be rendered useless in the face of complete corruption.

Far too fatalistic. "none of us can stop it" makes it sound like you've all but given up. Sure, the enemies might wish to enter and plunder at our expense, but even today, I think they will find that proverbial rifle behind every blade of grass.

I've not given up. I'm patiently waiting and watching and writing and speaking out to those who will listen. Those who will listen are few an far between. Either they've already heard it before and don't care, or we're all just stupid gun nuts and have no idea what we're talking about. I hear that a lot. If revolution were to hit, it wouldn't take much for them to infiltrate this Country with Spies hell bent on doing damage to us. It's good to have that proveberbial rifle, but how do you know who to shoot with it?

While I do not disagree with letting the reps know so they don't do anything more stupid than they already have, I think that passing the word and getting others to do likewise is equally important. It's kind of like dealing with a snarling dog; you have to keep saying "nice doggy, nice doggy" while you're looking for a stick... or drawing your pistol.

Blessings,
Bill

You are 100% correct. I spread the word, give out the website for here and the Tea Party and the MGOM.... I tell anyone who will listen. Those people are few and far between. It's an uphill battle and the ground is covered in .

I'm just saying that Revolution AT THIS TIME would be an awful thing, opening this Country up to attack worse than before.

 

[dburkhead]

Bush and Gore. Not that I wanted Gore to win, but Gore won the popular vote and should have been the man to deal with 9/11.

Nope. That's not a "last time this happened" because note that I said the vote being "by state" rather than by person. Bush won the States he needed.

If we have the popular vote, why should the EC exist? If New York state was split 50/50 those "electors" for NY would basiclly say all of NY is for Candidate A when in fact it was split even between A and B. How is that fair?

The Electoral College exists specifically to require the Presidential candidates to deal with issues relevant to various States as States. It's part of being a Federal Republic rather than a Democracy (and part of why I think the Amendment making Senators directly elected rather than appointed by State governments a mistake).

Historically, you had dual concerns in setting up the Federal government back when the Constitution was written. One was the concern by smaller, less populous, states that if strictly proportional representation was used the larger, more populous States would run roughshod over the interests of the smaller, less populous states. The flip side was that if even representation was used (each State having an equal vote) the smaller, more numerous, States would be able to dictate to the larger, more populous States. The compromise was what gave us even representation in the Senate and proportional representation in the House. The idea was that each house would act as a check on the problems associated with the other kind of representation.

There is the same issue with the Presidency. The Electoral College was away to attempt to balance the concerns that smaller, less populous, States might have their interests ignored if a simple "majority vote" was used to select the President vs. the concern that a lot of less populous States could force a President who will see to their interests at the expense of the more populous States. The Electoral College was a compromise between those two concerns. The voting is mostly proportional (in that the more populous States have more Electoral votes) but weighted slightly in favor of the less populous States. This acts to balance the interests of the various States.

Remember, the US was built as a group of individual States, not as a single nation with separate provinces. It was during the reign of that tyrant Lincoln that that changed.

Consider that one of the likely reasons Obama is taking the Census away from Commerce to run it from the White House directly is that even while the "amnesty" whose trial balloon he has floated might give him the popular vote, it isn't enough to guarantee him the Electoral vote. He has to sabotage the check against just that kind of stunt in order to make sure he can steal the next election.

Before rushing to dismantle the Electoral College make sure you understand the purposes it serves and be ready with something else to serve those purposes.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Very well stated, David, as usual. Still have to spread the love before I can rep you again.

Ryan... Do you REALLY think that Gore could have handled the 9/11 attacks with any kind of force? He's a milktoast! If he'd been in the White House in Sept. 2001, we'd all be either dead or learning Farsi.

As to the Electoral College and the splitting of votes, there are two states that may do that. If you like that idea, feel free to ask your Congress-critter to make it happen.

How do you know who to shoot with that rifle? (and who said anything about proverbial?) When that statement was made, the answer was easy: The guys in the Japanese military uniforms. Today, the answer would be the guy in the Semtex vest screaming "ALLAHU AKBAR!" Oh, and spies, traditionally, are hanged, not shot.

Revolution, at this time or at any time, will be an awful thing, I agree. It was an awful thing when it happened in 1775, too. Mr. Henry had a few things to say about it, though. God, that man had a way with words. Patrick Henry: Give Me Liberty Or Give Me Death

Blessings,
Bill

 

[SavageEagle]

Well, thanks David for clearing that up. I think I understood reasons it was set up. I just can't wrap my head around why we have a popular vote and then the EC. If the majority of Americans want one guy, but the EC votes the other guy, I don't see how that's fair?

Either way, this all isn't my point I was trying to make.

My point is that whether it's the people revolting, or terrorism, or some hostile Country, we are going to see a great war or serious catastrophy on our soil in our lifetime. Whether it be sooner or later, it's bound to happen. All we can do is stay vigilant, be prepared, and pray.

 

[SavageEagle]

Very well stated, David, as usual. Still have to spread the love before I can rep you again.

Ryan... Do you REALLY think that Gore could have handled the 9/11 attacks with any kind of force? He's a milktoast! If he'd been in the White House in Sept. 2001, we'd all be either dead or learning Farsi.

As to the Electoral College and the splitting of votes, there are two states that may do that. If you like that idea, feel free to ask your Congress-critter to make it happen.

How do you know who to shoot with that rifle? (and who said anything about proverbial?) When that statement was made, the answer was easy: The guys in the Japanese military uniforms. Today, the answer would be the guy in the Semtex vest screaming "ALLAHU AKBAR!" Oh, and spies, traditionally, are hanged, not shot.

Revolution, at this time or at any time, will be an awful thing, I agree. It was an awful thing when it happened in 1775, too. Mr. Henry had a few things to say about it, though. God, that man had a way with words. Patrick Henry: Give Me Liberty Or Give Me Death

Blessings,
Bill

Very well put. And trust me, I agree that Gore would have SERIOUSLY floped and folded on 9/11. Absolutely. It's just that he won popular vote (not mine) and lost the EC. It doesn't seem right, but I guess it is. IDK.

Proverbial as in "behind every blade of grass" Not everyone owns a rifle/pistol yet, but if things keep going.... No, it will not be easy to spot the enemy. What about Akbar wearing an over coat and a back pack? How do you know he's good or evil? Handcuff him and search him. Illegally...? If it's spies or terrorists bent on destruction, they will blend in so as to allude detection. If they were smart that is. That's why Revolution, now, would be a very bad mistake. North Korea, Iran, Russia, China, any one of them could sneak Nuclear weapons in and use them if we were too consumed with our own civil war. This is what would worry me most about revolution.

Oh, and that speech Henry gave... Golden. I think my kids are tired of me reading it to them...and other speeches from history. Especially Prime Minister Chamberlan and Patton... I wish they were old enough for George Carlin...

 

[dburkhead]

Well, thanks David for clearing that up. I think I understood reasons it was set up. I just can't wrap my head around why we have a popular vote and then the EC. If the majority of Americans want one guy, but the EC votes the other guy, I don't see how that's fair?

It's not only fair, it's the way it's supposed to work. As for why you have a popular vote, what you're voting for is how your State's Electors are supposed to vote. When you vote "Alfred E. Newman (P) and Irving Forbush (VP)" you are saying that you think your State should send Electors to vote for those individuals.

Another thing to remember is that when the US was founded, they didn't have TV, Radio, or rapid transportation. Presidential candidates would often be almost complete unknowns. It made sense in those circumstances for people to select someone they trusted (Electors) to go learn about the Candidates, and make an informed decision. That reason is less important today, of course.

 

[dburkhead]

Proverbial as in "behind every blade of grass" Not everyone owns a rifle/pistol yet, but if things keep going....

But there are enough weapons in circulation to arm every adult in the US. I, by myself, could arm a rather eclectic squad so that everyone, at least, has something to shoot. (Making sure I have a "combat load" in reserve for all the weapons is next, followed by commo.) I can hope that I never have to, just like I hope I never have to use that trauma kit I carry in my car, however, my experience is that the world is remarkably indifferent to what I hope.

A friend of mine could outfit somewhere between an Platoon and a Company, including some support weapons.

 

[SavageEagle]

But there are enough weapons in circulation to arm every adult in the US. I, by myself, could arm a rather eclectic squad so that everyone, at least, has something to shoot. (Making sure I have a "combat load" in reserve for all the weapons is next, followed by commo.) I can hope that I never have to, just like I hope I never have to use that trauma kit I carry in my car, however, my experience is that the world is remarkably indifferent to what I hope.

A friend of mine could outfit somewhere between an Platoon and a Company, including some support weapons.

I'm only equipped to outfit Natalie and myself. For now.

 

[HICKMAN]

we all gonna die!