Interesting news story on self-defense.

[Fargo]

Depends on the crime. IC has a list. If Johnnie is robbing Timmie, and Jamie shoots Johnnie to stop the robbery, Johnnie can't shoot Jamie and claim self-defense.

It isn't so much which crime, but rather whether the crime is the cause of the "self defense". Mayes v. State 744 NE2d 390 is generally the current law on the matter.

HN5 If subsection (d)(1) [of Indiana Code § 35-41-3-2] is to be taken literally, then no person may claim self defense if that person at the time he acts is coincidentally committing some criminal offense. For example, possession of a marijuana cigarette or the failure to have filed one's income tax returns could deny one the defense no matter how egregious, or unrelated, the circumstances that prompted the action. Read as a whole, the statute refutes such a construction.....


.....We conclude that HN6 because a defendant is committing a crime at the time he is allegedly defending himself is not sufficient standing alone to deprive the defendant of the defense of self-defense. Rather, there must [**9] be an immediate causal connection between the crime and the confrontation. Stated differently, the evidence must show that but for the defendant committing a crime, the confrontation resulting in injury to the victim would not have occurred. Cf. Roche v. State, 690 N.E.2d 1115, 1124 (Ind. 1997) ("A person who kills while committing or attempting to commit a robbery is a person who kills while committing a crime and so the defense of self-defense is not available."). Having reached this conclusion however does not mean we agree that Mayes is entitled to reversal and a new trial.


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MAYES v. STATE | FindLaw

 

[gregr]

If only common sense were common. If one takes a life, not being involved in the commission of a crime, but instead, only defending oneself from an aggressor, clearly, that is not "murder". We have to understand, and always remember, that statistics are easily manipulated to make an argument for nearly any agenda.

 

[gregr]

Well, take a look at who his clients are and you can figure why he says this.



Thank the coroner for that one. Murder and natural causes aren't the only options. Let's say someone died from an overdose and then someone else dismembered the body and tried to hide it. It wouldn't count as a murder and would also not be natural causes. (Note I am not saying that's something that occurred in that particular case, just a possibility as to why something would not be classified as a murder until more facts were gathered). Sometimes deaths are believed to be murders by the police but aren't classified as such right away.



Lulz, home invasions are very very rarely random crimes and are tied to the dope trade. The number of random killings is a tiny, tiny portion of murders. Most are quite targeted, either against the individual or as an occupational hazard.

It is VERY convoluted logic to state that during the commission of a crime, you still retain the legal right to defend yourself. It`s a load of hooey, or, how would it make sense to charge a perp with attempted murder for shooting the officer trying to kill him? It is truely frightening at times to see the warped "logic" that gets thrown about so easily...

 

[jbombelli]

It is VERY convoluted logic to state that during the commission of a crime, you still retain the legal right to defend yourself. It`s a load of hooey, or, how would it make sense to charge a perp with attempted murder for shooting the officer trying to kill him? It is truely frightening at times to see the warped "logic" that gets thrown about so easily...

Depending on the crime and the circumstances it might not be convoluted at all.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Regardless, I think the important take away is that lifestyle choices usually put people in the position to be on either end of the gunfight. Don't be involved in ongoing criminal enterprises, don't date a psycho, etc. and your odds are pretty danged good.

 

[jbombelli]

Once upon a time I didn't know I was dating a psycho until we had lived together for a while. This is why you live with them before you marry them.

 

[Fargo]

Regardless, I think the important take away is that lifestyle choices usually put people in the position to be on either end of the gunfight. Don't be involved in ongoing criminal enterprises, don't date a psycho, etc. and your odds are pretty danged good.

Every murder in my jurisdiction in the last decade was either drug deal related or some flavor of domestic...

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Every murder in my jurisdiction in the last decade was either drug deal related or some flavor of domestic...

I don't doubt it. Drugs and murders between friends and family over sometimes the pettiest of arguments make up the vast majority. Then occupational targeting such as the gas station clerk, jewelry store owner, LEO, armored car guard, etc. Then everyone else, or the truly "random" crimes. I don't have the real stats at hand, but I'd bet, murder-wise, the portion for "everyone else" is under 5%. Maybe way under.

 

[bubbazap]

As one of my college professors told me a long time ago "Statistics Lie and Liars use Statistics"

True then and true now

 

[bb37]

As one of my college professors told me a long time ago "Statistics Lie and Liars use Statistics"

I like the quote attributed to Mark Twain: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

 

[Lil Bob]

This is the best part of the post - those we socialize with and the situations we place ourselves in directly relate to the outcomes in our lives.