Injecting premature babies with chemotherapy to "prevent blindness"

[6birds]

So take from that what you will. If you want to be educated and informed you should not dismiss the other side of the argument.

I think you rated yourself too high. You are not the "other side" of any discussion I've ever had, just a mouth with an opinion and an inability to discern fact from garbage.

You add "might", "maybe", "most", "always", add or delete material and invisible statistics to add merit to thrash theories on .Gov, Docs, Teachers, Big Pharma, etc.

The lies you add is why i always laugh at everything you post here. If the mods want us to "play nice" with you, sure, but it's garbage all the same.

Your doctor sucks
Your medicine sucks
Your schools suck
Your teachers suck
Your government sucks
Everything you see, sucks

I can see the common problem, can you?

 

[Expat]

Hopefully we can get an opinion from the office manager at the chiropractor's office that was the medical expert speaker on immunizations that was being advertised a few months back.

 

[Benny]

I think you rated yourself too high. You are not the "other side" of any discussion I've ever had, just a mouth with an opinion and an inability to discern fact from garbage.

You add "might", "maybe", "most", "always", add or delete material and invisible statistics to add merit to thrash theories on .Gov, Docs, Teachers, Big Pharma, etc.

The lies you add is why i always laugh at everything you post here. If the mods want us to "play nice" with you, sure, but it's garbage all the same.

Your doctor sucks
Your medicine sucks
Your schools suck
Your teachers suck
Your government sucks
Everything you see, sucks

I can see the common problem, can you?

This deserves to be quoted.

Sorry, but I could only rep you once.

 

[public servant]

If you want to be educated and informed you should not dismiss the other side of the argument.

As soon as I find someone presenting a credible version of it...I'll let you know.

 

[rambone]

See you in the next thread guys. lol

 

[Que]

See you in the next thread guys. lol

 

[public servant]

See you in the next thread guys. lol

We'll be there.

 

[rjstew317]

 

[redneckmedic]

 

[rjstew317]

^^^yeah.......i know

 

[shftn6]

Does anyone in this thread have any direct experience with premature babies, ROP, or using Avastin to prevent blindness as the OP suggests? Maybe a combination of all three? I'm not looking for "I read such-n-such article" but rather first-hand experience.

Sorry I'm late to this thread, but I think I can shed some light here. I have 24+ yrs private practice Optometry experience, dealing with many hundreds (maybe thousands, whose counting?) of patients with vascular eye issues.

While it is true that Avastin used intravitreously is an off label use, it has REVOLUTIONIZED the treatment of neovascular eye disease in the 4-5 years we've had it available for use. The FDA approval process for every use for every drug is simply too expensive and too arduous to make good economic sense. Hundreds of drugs are used "off label" many thousands of times every day.

The problem with wet macular degeneration, and diabetic retinopathy is a breakdown in the functionality of the capillary beds which carry blood to the retinal tissues due to the disease. In the case of ROP, those capillary beds don't form correctly in the first place due to the high oxygen environment that the premature infant is placed in due to the lung problems they have because of their prematurity. In any case, when the capillary beds don't function, the associated tissue starves for oxygen. The body, through a very complicated process, starts growing new blood vessels into the oxygen starved tissue. This is called neovascularization (new-vascularization). Sounds like a great idea, right? The problem is that these new vessels leak - they are not as "strong" as the ones you were born with. This leakage leads to scarring and loss of function of the retinal tissue, which is essentially the "film in the camera" of the eye.

When I got out of school 24 yrs ago, once the diagnosis was made, you basically watched the patient go blind from there on out. Laser treatment was often attempted, usually in an effort to "do something", but the collateral tissue damage could often be as bad as the disease. At best you could only keep the problem from getting worse. Cryotherapy, or "freezing" as rambone suggested was never a viable treatment option for these disease entities, the procedure is just too hard to control in this very delicate and precise environment.

Now, with Avastin and Lucentis, we have a treatment with MINIMAL side effects - I've never personally seen any - which almost always stops the disease progression. In 40% of the cases, the patients actually IMPROVE in visual acuity - unheard of only 5 yrs ago!

If my parent, myself or my child has vascular complications from macular degen. diabetes, or ROP, you can bet that I will want Avastin injections. Thank God for the advances that modern medicine under our capitalist system has been able to produce!

There are no "guarantees" with the human body or it's treatment. It never ceases to amaze me why some people look for every reason not to accept a treatment modality, when the chances of success are overwhelmingly higher! Rambone apparently has an axe to grind with the medical community in general. A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing....

 

[rjstew317]

^^^^great post shftn6^^^^^^
i would rep you but i'm out

 

[Benny]

Sorry I'm late to this thread, but I think I can shed some light here. I have 24+ yrs private practice Optometry experience, dealing with many hundreds (maybe thousands, whose counting?) of patients with vascular eye issues.

While it is true that Avastin used intravitreously is an off label use, it has REVOLUTIONIZED the treatment of neovascular eye disease in the 4-5 years we've had it available for use. The FDA approval process for every use for every drug is simply too expensive and too arduous to make good economic sense. Hundreds of drugs are used "off label" many thousands of times every day.

The problem with wet macular degeneration, and diabetic retinopathy is a breakdown in the functionality of the capillary beds which carry blood to the retinal tissues due to the disease. In the case of ROP, those capillary beds don't form correctly in the first place due to the high oxygen environment that the premature infant is placed in due to the lung problems they have because of their prematurity. In any case, when the capillary beds don't function, the associated tissue starves for oxygen. The body, through a very complicated process, starts growing new blood vessels into the oxygen starved tissue. This is called neovascularization (new-vascularization). Sounds like a great idea, right? The problem is that these new vessels leak - they are not as "strong" as the ones you were born with. This leakage leads to scarring and loss of function of the retinal tissue, which is essentially the "film in the camera" of the eye.

When I got out of school 24 yrs ago, once the diagnosis was made, you basically watched the patient go blind from there on out. Laser treatment was often attempted, usually in an effort to "do something", but the collateral tissue damage could often be as bad as the disease. At best you could only keep the problem from getting worse. Cryotherapy, or "freezing" as rambone suggested was never a viable treatment option for these disease entities, the procedure is just too hard to control in this very delicate and precise environment.

Now, with Avastin and Lucentis, we have a treatment with MINIMAL side effects - I've never personally seen any - which almost always stops the disease progression. In 40% of the cases, the patients actually IMPROVE in visual acuity - unheard of only 5 yrs ago!

If my parent, myself or my child has vascular complications from macular degen. diabetes, or ROP, you can bet that I will want Avastin injections. Thank God for the advances that modern medicine under our capitalist system has been able to produce!

There are no "guarantees" with the human body or it's treatment. It never ceases to amaze me why some people look for every reason not to accept a treatment modality, when the chances of success are overwhelmingly higher! Rambone apparently has an axe to grind with the medical community in general. A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing....

Pfft, over 24 years of experience?

Sorry, but that just doesn't cut it. While having ZERO experience with basically everything he posts, rambone has an infinite amount of internet articles that he can use to twist any way he wants. I hate to break it to you, but he wins and you lose.




















(BTW, I will rep you when I recharge. )

 

[6birds]

Got him.

 

[Bigum1969]

Thank god they aren't injecting vaccines into those little babies...

 

[UncleMike]

Sorry I'm late to this thread, but I think I can shed some light here. I have 24+ yrs private practice Optometry experience, dealing with many hundreds (maybe thousands, whose counting?) of patients with vascular eye issues.

While it is true that Avastin used intravitreously is an off label use, it has REVOLUTIONIZED the treatment of neovascular eye disease in the 4-5 years we've had it available for use. The FDA approval process for every use for every drug is simply too expensive and too arduous to make good economic sense. Hundreds of drugs are used "off label" many thousands of times every day.

The problem with wet macular degeneration, and diabetic retinopathy is a breakdown in the functionality of the capillary beds which carry blood to the retinal tissues due to the disease. In the case of ROP, those capillary beds don't form correctly in the first place due to the high oxygen environment that the premature infant is placed in due to the lung problems they have because of their prematurity. In any case, when the capillary beds don't function, the associated tissue starves for oxygen. The body, through a very complicated process, starts growing new blood vessels into the oxygen starved tissue. This is called neovascularization (new-vascularization). Sounds like a great idea, right? The problem is that these new vessels leak - they are not as "strong" as the ones you were born with. This leakage leads to scarring and loss of function of the retinal tissue, which is essentially the "film in the camera" of the eye.

When I got out of school 24 yrs ago, once the diagnosis was made, you basically watched the patient go blind from there on out. Laser treatment was often attempted, usually in an effort to "do something", but the collateral tissue damage could often be as bad as the disease. At best you could only keep the problem from getting worse. Cryotherapy, or "freezing" as rambone suggested was never a viable treatment option for these disease entities, the procedure is just too hard to control in this very delicate and precise environment.

Now, with Avastin and Lucentis, we have a treatment with MINIMAL side effects - I've never personally seen any - which almost always stops the disease progression. In 40% of the cases, the patients actually IMPROVE in visual acuity - unheard of only 5 yrs ago!

If my parent, myself or my child has vascular complications from macular degen. diabetes, or ROP, you can bet that I will want Avastin injections. Thank God for the advances that modern medicine under our capitalist system has been able to produce!

There are no "guarantees" with the human body or it's treatment. It never ceases to amaze me why some people look for every reason not to accept a treatment modality, when the chances of success are overwhelmingly higher! Rambone apparently has an axe to grind with the medical community in general. A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing....

Thanks for giving us the facts!!
Like Benny said, it's likely going to be "proven" that you're wrong by some unnamed Internet Savior, but I appreciate the refreshing dose of reality in these fear mongering threads.

 

[redneckmedic]

Pfft, over 24 years of experience?

Sorry, but that just doesn't cut it. While having ZERO experience with basically everything he posts, rambone has an infinite amount of internet articles that he can use to twist any way he wants. I hate to break it to you, but he wins and you lose.

That's not true.... he has also attended a couple of seminars in Bloomington!

 

[Love the 1911]

As fun as this is, I would suggest that we back off Rambone. I'm glad that we hashed this out and had facts presented from parents and a doctor and we'll all be able to make a more informed decision if we are ever faced with this nightmare. For now, I need to go tell a friend about all this as his wife has macular degeneration and I have no clue what kind of treatment they have been using so far.

 

[Bigum1969]

 

[Bigum1969]

BTW... band aids kill.