INGO electricians, this is the proper way to wire outdoor lighting yes?

[bulletsmith]

Electrical codes can't compensate for gross incompetence.


Your two issues: Chicago's codes (that serve to empower unions) and poor electrical installations are non sequitur.


I'd like to see evidence that Chicago's draconian laws prevent more electrical fires from occurring. It should be relatively easy to show a statically significant reduction in fires over the last decade when compared to other cities.

Can you explain how electrical codes (Chicago or National) empower unions? I don't really follow that one. Chicago's code isn't all that strict, it just doesn't allow for inferior building methods. Yes romex, plastic boxes, and everything that goes with it is inferior compared to a conduit installation.

 

[JettaKnight]

Can you explain how electrical codes (Chicago or National) empower unions? I don't really follow that one. Chicago's code isn't all that strict, it just doesn't allow for inferior building methods. Yes romex, plastic boxes, and everything that goes with it is inferior compared to a conduit installation.

Let's focus solely on Chicago. And probably NYC. The rest of the county has agreed romex is "good enough" for residential installations and can't stomach the extra expense of pipe / armored cable. Inferior as it may be, we accept it as adequate.


It's an economic rent. In other words, Laws and codes that require more than the minimum standard (as defined by most other jurisdictions). Who benefits? Not the building owner - they have to pay more. Not the general public - it's not proven to be safer. Not the suppliers - they have to do extra work to prove compliance. The electrical contractor (UBEW) is the only beneficiary.

As a manufacturer of electrical equipment, I can attest that Chicago's code is onerous and stinks of Chicago corruption.We have to provide extra enclosures for low voltage that when viewed from outside Chicago is preposterous. How is it dangerous to have low voltage, low current cable outside of conduit?

If tomorrow a proposal was up to scrap it and have Chicago fall in line with the rest of the country, who's going to fight it?Not homeowner or builders - a 10% cut in home prices would be pretty sweet. It'd be the union labor that's making a living by exploiting this code.

 

[JettaKnight]

Never saw a rodent that ate through metallic conduit, I have seen chewed romex.

Loose codes lower minimum standards. Stricter codes have to pass stricter inspections. That is why we appreciate a top grade pistol over a hi point.

Appreciate yes, but don't mandate.


Now back to the OP...

I think those lights should be controlled by the switch that was tucked behind the booth seat at lunch yesterday. Yup that's a standard 15A single pole that controls a neon sign in the window. It's just held in place via friction, just waiting for a toddler to come along...

 

[Fargo]

That install looks like a lot of wiring in Indiana. I was licensed in Cook County, IL, and licensed by the City of Chicago. EVERYTHING goes in metallic conduit. Even if it is installed in pipe, the job can get red tagged for sloppy, "unworkman like" installations. No plastic boxes, no romex, etc. It was a big shock for me to see new construction wired with romex, and plastic boxes. I have opened boxes in commercial business in Indiana where there are 5 hot circuits all tied to a single 12 gauge neutral. I have seen 2 conducter romex wired to a grounded recepticle where the there was a jumper between the ground screw and the neutral so it would fool the inspectors little plug in tester. Things like that scare me.

No wonder every time a building burns they say it was an electrical fire.

True Story, when the Feds wanted to develop the National Electric Code, Chicago already had one. They said it was too strict and caused too much expense.

In fairness, Chicago already burnt itself to the ground once. Most of the rest of the country hasn't yet managed to pull off a 4 square mile urban burn yet.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

I'm a keyboard commando in electricianry... so far as I can tell, you have a serious problem, and should fix this right away... it appears a wire has been spliced with electrical tape. I've highlighted the mentioned problem area in the photo below. Everything else looks totally cool. That'll be $50.

 

[Old Dog]

Looks like some wiring my dad did years ago from the house to the mini-barn. Propped up with a forked sapling tree in the middle of the run (300 feet). Ran from what was the exterior light at the back door. Guess we can't complain, it worked for 40 years and no-one died or got shocked!

 

[Leo]

In other words, Laws and codes that require more than the minimum standard (as defined by most other jurisdictions). Who benefits? Not the building owner - they have to pay more. Not the general public - it's not proven to be safer. Not the suppliers - they have to do extra work to prove compliance.

Surely this is a misprint, you cannot possibly believe this. I spent some time in Mexico, in a city, not a resort. They have almost no codes, and if what you see does not give you nightmares, you are not paying attention.

I cannot count the number of 50 year old romex houses that I have refused to do service work. The insulation is crumbling at the slightest touch. Even if the add/move/change work is done perfectly, when the house catches fire, you are the last electrician, so it must be your fault, and there is no shortage of lawyers willing to take the case.

A 50 plus year old conduit installation allows you to pull the deteriorated wire and replace with new. There is no damage done to the place, as long as the electrician is careful, you don't even need to clean the wallpaper. Tell me how you do that in an romex installation. Every time I have seen that done they have to bust the walls open down to the studs. Notice that I am not accusing Dry Wall contractors of exploiting the end user.

You have the right to hate union tradesman all you want, and you can wire your building with chinese extension cords and masking tape if you want, but it is not logical to claim that a higher quality product is thievery by union craftsman exploiting people.

The house I built in Indiana is piped, a neutral and ground is run for each hot wire, and all lighting is on separate circuits from other loads so you do not add the personal danger of being in the dark if a powered device fails.