INGO Argument Match ...Alpha: In The Big Inning

[Jludo]

There is Truth and there is deception, despite what we choose to believe.

I like the science behind this, the more we learn the less sure we are of any objective reality. It's looking more and more like realities are just constructs of our brains.

 

[Double T]

There is Truth and there is deception, despite what we choose to believe.

My perception is not a lie, no more than your perception is a lie. I can't prove to you that my perception is true, nor can you convince me your perception is true. Likewise, we can't disprove the other's perception.

Much like beauty is in the eye of the beholder, or one man's trash is another's treasure.

Faith cannot be proven, because if it could, it wouldn't be faith. Which is why these people crying for "proof" or a "legitimate message from God" will never have faith. Which is fine.

If you don't mind my asking, which theistic viewpoint do you ascribe yourself to?

 

[foszoe]

I like the science behind this, the more we learn the less sure we are of any objective reality. It's looking more and more like realities are just constructs of our brains.

I would say current objective "reality", not that there is reality itself. We continue to to refine our understanding. That does not imply reality itself ever changed.

That is one reason why I don't understand athiests described as a default position. My default position on anything is agnostic.

 

[Alpo]

I would agree. Science itself deals with falsifiability. Skepticism. To carry petulance to extreme, you have atheists. It is a rejection of wonder.

 

[Jludo]

I would say current objective "reality", not that there is reality itself. We continue to to refine our understanding. That does not imply reality itself ever changed.

That is one reason why I don't understand athiests described as a default position. My default position on anything is agnostic.

I don't think the definitions of atheist and agnostic are well explained or understood. I enjoy Penn Jillette on the subject. I don't think anyone on here who's painted as an atheist believes they know for sure that there is no God. On the contrary those here who aren't religious simply aren't convinced of the existence of whichever God is being peddled.
We simply don't know, in contrast to the religious who do know.


[video=youtube;4_WKlttKRDw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtmOueyDoqg[/video]

 

[foszoe]

I don't think the definitions of atheist and agnostic are well explained or understood. I enjoy Penn Jillette on the subject.[video=youtube;4_WKlttKRDw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_WKlttKRDw[/video]

Watched the whole thing.

2 points.

I am a simple guy. I define the words the way they were originally. Not as Huxtable.

In greek

Gnosis means know
Theos means God

Placing an a in front of a Greek word negates it.

A Gnosis
A Theos

It's that simple.

2nd point.

Morality

His goal statements are confused

His goal and the Christian goal is to love and do things out of love just as he describes for his kids.

Parents often use punishment or fear of such in shaping children towards this ideal goal until the goal itself is realized and fear or punishment is no longer necessary.

He also hints at the answer to the question about OT "vs" NT God that you have.

If I would have been Darwin and my daughter died and untimely death and the typical Christian rhetoric of his time had been used to comfort me, I would probably have held a negative view of Christianity in general.

It's not nor has it ever been about going to a happy place.

 

[Jludo]

Watched the whole thing.

2 points.

I am a simple guy. I define the words the way they were originally. Not as Huxtable.

In greek

Gnosis means know
Theos means God

Placing an a in front of a Greek word negates it.

A Gnosis
A Theos

It's that simple.

I'm simpler than that, I don't know greek but I can google. It says a- in Greek translates to 'without', so it says without god. 'a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.'

The non-religious on here simply lack a belief in God, I don't think any claim to know for sure there is no god. It's absurd to profess you know for sure something doesn't exist. You can rationalize a probability based on evidence at hand.

 

[foszoe]

I'm simpler than that, I don't know greek but I can google. It says a- in Greek translates to 'without', so it says without god. 'a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.'

The non-religious on here simply lack a belief in God, I don't think any claim to know for sure there is no god. It's absurd to profess you know for sure something doesn't exist. You can rationalize a probability based on evidence at hand.

Come now my friend, does your Google say without or without / not?

I Googled Greek prefix a

And got both.

Not is simpler than without.

 

[Jludo]

Come now my friend, does your Google say without or without / not?

I Googled Greek prefix a

And got both.

Not is simpler than without.

I Googled atheist. I withdraw my statements though, I don't care to argue the semantics.

 

[foszoe]

I Googled atheist. I withdraw my statements though, I don't care to argue the semantics.

Nor do i. Apologize for it coming across that way. It was an attempt at humor, not being more "correct"

 

[Alpo]

 

[Alpo]

Sorry for the large image. I didn't know how to reduce it. It is a view of Earth from Saturn taken by the Cassini spacecraft. It is one of my favorite fotos and speaks to me about the nature of anthropocentrism and its incredible vanity.

To assume that a series of documents written 2500 years ago understand the nature of creation and the place of humanity in the universe and then to have modern man, with the tools available to him to continue to speak as if Man is the most important thing in a "plan", is amazingly incomprehensible to me.

 

[Jludo]

Sorry for the large image. I didn't know how to reduce it. It is a view of Earth from Saturn taken by the Cassini spacecraft. It is one of my favorite fotos and speaks to me about the nature of anthropocentrism and its incredible vanity.

To assume that a series of documents written 2500 years ago understand the nature of creation and the place of humanity in the universe and then to have modern man, with the tools available to him to continue to speak as if Man is the most important thing in a "plan", is amazingly incomprehensible to me.

Along the same vein I have a pale blue dot picture hung in my room, one of my favorites. I agree with your view.

 

[foszoe]

Sorry for the large image. I didn't know how to reduce it. It is a view of Earth from Saturn taken by the Cassini spacecraft. It is one of my favorite fotos and speaks to me about the nature of anthropocentrism and its incredible vanity.

To assume that a series of documents written 2500 years ago understand the nature of creation and the place of humanity in the universe and then to have modern man, with the tools available to him to continue to speak as if Man is the most important thing in a "plan", is amazingly incomprehensible to me.

Documents are incapable of understanding anything. They can express things within the limitations of the language in which they are written.

Christians should not treat the Bible as a Koran.

St John Chrysostom said it best, I think, when he said the Scriptures are God speaking in Baby talk to mankind.

 

[Alpo]

Yep. A metaphor.

But so are the Schroedinger equations. Even that might be baby talk to the true nature of the universe.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Documents are incapable of understanding anything. They can express things within the limitations of the language in which they are written.

Christians should not treat the Bible as a Koran.

St John Chrysostom said it best, I think, when he said the Scriptures are God speaking in Baby talk to mankind.

My grandfather you to explain Gods plan as a million piece puzzle, in which we had one piece. It's obviously impossible to determine what the big picture is.

 

[ATM]

My grandfather you to explain Gods plan as a million piece puzzle, in which we had one piece. It's obviously impossible to determine what the big picture is.

Your grandfather sounds very wise.

Did he treasure that one piece he'd found above all else and stand forever amazed at the true nature and magnitude of the puzzle?

 

[ATM]

Paul,

I'm not fighting fair, am I?

I pray that you are considering very deeply your next response to me, whether in this thread or privately.

When I claimed to wanted to "play for blood", it wasn't a threat (to you), it was a promise (to God).

You have nothing to lose in this argument, no god that can fall.

I have so intertwined myself with my God, that for you to deny Him would deny me in the process.

Without Him, I'm either a liar or a lunatic.

Choose.

If you never had any blood in this game, and I only play for blood, why did I pick you?

I can't explain it, but the best word I have to offer you is this: Obedience.

Merry CHRISTmas, friend.

ATM

 

[ATM]

Paul, Paul, hey, Paul! Wait! I just had the most magnificent idea!

I get the clear sense that you are cooking up "somethin' really nice" for me (cousin Eddie voice there, of course) and I want you to just wait.

Hear me out, please.

I'd like to get you "somethin' really nice" for Christmas and it might take me a couple days to get it.

If you'll give me that long before responding, I'll offer you this:

After I give you your gift, you drop whatever bomb you've been cookin' up for me here in this thread. That gives you a few days to refine it and add to it if you like. DON'T HOLD BACK.

I'm ready to take your best shot, I'll take everything you have to dish out, right square in the sugar plums

...on the day that I celebrate the birth of my imaginary friend! (The One who's voice I imagine in my head, anyway.)

If you can muster up the will to kick me, and kick me like you mean it, on that day, I will give you this argument.

I will admit that you are not only an atheist, but that you are hardcore atheist.

If you only slap me with a glove or make further attempts to ridicule my God separate from me, you stay in the game, you're not hardcore, and I will continue from wherever we left off.

Nobody could blame you: I am a liar, I am a lunatic, I'm nothing but a troll. I've certainly begged for this (for some reason).

Just please don't respond until I give you your gift. This could be cool. Thanks for considering my offer.

 

[ATM]

Your gift will be delivered tomorrow evening, CHRISTmas eve. Thank you very much for your patience.

I've re-read our "arguments" several times now, Paul, and the board position, much like a target, does not lie.

One's personal target analysis may not lead them to proper conclusions, as it is a humbling skill to acquire and even more so to apply.

But the board position of this unfair "game", this exercise, reveals to me that regardless of your next "move", I will be able to respond with another check to continue... or, force a stalemate.

I haven't decided, and neither have you, but I thought I'd let you know.

I hope you will accept your free gift. It's not a membership in the jelly of the month club, but it's one of those gifts that keeps on giving.