Indiana church's sign viewed as knock on Allah

[SavageEagle]

You missed my point, I even said that "Allah" was their word for God. My point was - the God of the Bible and Allah are not even close to being the same - by definition. I don't think it shows ignorance on the part of the signmaker, because Allah and God of the Bible are different. Two seperately defined beiings with seperate and different characteristics.

Even if it did. I couldn't give two hoots about PC BS.

Ahem, see my previous post.

 

[henktermaat]

Ahem, see my previous post.

Yeah- I know where you stand on PC issues

 

[Cygnus]

You claim to be a Christian, yet you worship the same god that Muslims worship? Please go back to the Bible, and away from your "religious scholars."

Yes and so do you.
We both worship the same God the Muslims claim to worship. They claim to worship the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. In fact every year people are given the death sentance for defaming Jesus in muslim countries...Muslins deny the Trinity.
My religious scholars include my preist. Also I believe the Baptist Church is wrong on some issues. I believe the Orthodox Chruch is right and the Trinity is a mystery we cannot fully comprehend. Does that make either one of us wrong? Are we worhiping different Gods? If so I'm introuble because I've been to several Baptist churches and had good experiences. Both the singing and non-singing Baptist churches. Same God I think....

 

[SavageEagle]

Yeah- I know where you stand on PC issues

Hey now!

I'm just pointing out the obvious here. It should say Jesus and Mohammed. Not Jesus and Allah.

 

[henktermaat]

Yes and so do you.
We both worship the same God the Muslims claim to worship. They claim to worship the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. In fact every year people are given the death sentance for defaming Jesus in muslim countries...Muslins deny the Trinity.
My religious scholars include my preist. Also I believe the Baptist Church is wrong on some issues. I believe the Orthodox Chruch is right and the Trinity is a mystery we cannot fully comprehend. Does that make either one of us wrong? Are we worhiping different Gods? If so I'm introuble because I've been to several Baptist churches and had good experiences. Both the singing and non-singing Baptist churches. Same God I think....

Muslims (and lots of PC/deceived Christians) incorrectly believe that allah and God are the same - but they are wrong. I do not worship Allah, I worship God of the Bible - and the differences are huge.

From the Koran:
Sura 29:46
"... Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."

All it takes is a simple comparison to break this lie.
Allah's characteristics are just plain different. The Koran describes Allah as aloof, unreachable, and unknowable more of an autocratic king (impersonal), whereas God is personal, knowable, and the God of love. God is trinity (clearly stating that Jesus is God, et cetera), and Allah is Unitarian - and they are super clear about that point (contradicting Sura 29:46) to better differentiate Allah from the God of the Bible. Allah stresses submission to his supremacy, where God of the Bible stresses love and humility and showed us how to be servants by example.

1 Peter 5, 6-7
Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.

Christian leaders corrected G.W. Bush back when he alluded to something like "we all worship the same God"

 

[cce1302]

Yes and so do you.
We both worship the same God the Muslims claim to worship. They claim to worship the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. In fact every year people are given the death sentance for defaming Jesus in muslim countries...Muslins deny the Trinity.
My religious scholars include my preist. Also I believe the Baptist Church is wrong on some issues. I believe the Orthodox Chruch is right and the Trinity is a mystery we cannot fully comprehend. Does that make either one of us wrong? Are we worhiping different Gods? If so I'm introuble because I've been to several Baptist churches and had good experiences. Both the singing and non-singing Baptist churches. Same God I think....

I don't claim to worship their god or yours. I only worship the God of the Bible, as he has revealed himself, and not through mohammed, moroni, or anyone else preaching a gospel other than what is in the scripture.

 

[Cygnus]

Basicly I believe Jesus died for all our sins and he is the way to salvation. The rest is window dressing. If I could read ancient (not modern) Greek, Hebrew, and Arabic I could be as confident as you in my answers. Any other langauges are translations and by definition open to the flaws of humanity.

You all have fun with this, I'm going back to firearms talk and maybe to suggest a religion forum since we have a politics one......they shouldn't be mixed ya know

 

[Bill of Rights]

I am of the belief that there is One God. Much as in Spanish, the word "naranjo" translates to English as "orange", yet what you call that particular fruit does not diminish nor in any way change it's sweetness, so, too, is God, God.

I have to wonder, with the Muslim belief as described in henktermaat's post contrasted against the Christian belief in the Trinity as contrasted against the Jewish view of one God... if we are not all blind men in a room, trying to describe the elephant betwixt us; that is, is He not simply too massive a concept for our tiny human brains to fully embrace?

In no way am I denying anyone's religious convictions. I simply state my belief, followed by thoughts on the origins of our differences. I think we probably all agree that the differences in our various views of the Deity are all man-made differences. (Do we go to religious services on Saturday or Sunday? Do we use this man-made language for prayer or that one? Do we refer to a "Holy Ghost" or a "Holy Spirit"? Is that "Holy Spirit" actually a neutered version of the feminine aspects of God?)

Sooooooooooo many questions, and no answers at all until we are no longer here to share them with others. Personally, I think it's a test. I think He wants us to question so that there is a possibility that we'll come to the right conclusion, but also a possibility we will not. What's that quote? "There is no triumph in success without the possibility of failure." Something like that, anyway.

As to the church sign, as long as they are willing to accept the consequences (within the law) of their stated thoughts, I fully support their right to post what they wish.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Phil502]

Yes and so do you.
We both worship the same God the Muslims claim to worship. They claim to worship the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. In fact every year people are given the death sentance for defaming Jesus in muslim countries...Muslins deny the Trinity.
My religious scholars include my preist. Also I believe the Baptist Church is wrong on some issues. I believe the Orthodox Chruch is right and the Trinity is a mystery we cannot fully comprehend. Does that make either one of us wrong? Are we worhiping different Gods? If so I'm introuble because I've been to several Baptist churches and had good experiences. Both the singing and non-singing Baptist churches. Same God I think....

I am not so sure about Muslim believing in the same God theory, I would have to ask a Muslim if this is so.
Muslims certainly believe that Jesus was a prophet (not the son of God), though a lessor prophet than Mohamed. Like you said they don't believe in the trinity or the Immaculate Conception either.
It always struck me as hypocritical that Islam openly defines Jesus as something other than what Christians do yet they allow no discourse against what Islam states.

 

[Hotdoger]

LOL. Yes, LOL

I'm a Christian and have NEVER heard the word Jehovah used in church. In fact isnlt that used in the old testament?


I've only heard of the Klan or Aryan Nation using Yehweh.

I've seen muslims on TV using the word God.

You have not been to a church that preaches the King James bible then, as most Baptist churches do.

Yes Jehovah appears in the old Testament.


I don't listen to Klan or Nazi stuff so I would not know about that.

Muslims will freak out when you tell them Allah's chosen people are the Jews.

That should tell you they worship a different god.

 

[darinb]

Not if your dogma teaches Trinity. I'm just sayin'.

+1 he has a good point.

 

[haldir]

My understanding also, is that Muslims worship the same God as the Jews. They are children of Abraham, descendants of the handmaiden and Ishmael. They refer to Jews and (I believe)Christians as other children of the Book in the Koran. To say you can refute this by comparing the character of their God and ours is a bit silly. I think any atheist that read the God of the Old Testament and compared him to the Christ in the New would swear they are unrelated as well. I am quite certain you can do some theological acrobatics to argue this but my point stands. I believe they have been led astray in their beliefs by the pedophile Mohammed though.

 

[Cygnus]

You have not been to a church that preaches the King James bible then, as most Baptist churches do. So what? I'm not a Baptist. King James version matters not to me. (and I have been a guest in several Baptist churches and treated well)

Yes Jehovah appears in the old Testament.

Well, where I go the they concentrate on Christ and God.


I don't listen to Klan or Nazi stuff so I would not know about that.

No History channel?

Muslims will freak out when you tell them Allah's chosen people are the Jews. Likely. And this is a serious question, where in the New Testament (King James or otherwise) does it say the Jewish peopel are God's chosen people? I thought the idea of the new Testament was to change the errors of the first. Ya know stuff like angry God...
a New Covenent perhaps?????

That should tell you they worship a different god.
Sorry nope. Ask your pastor/preacher or google Abrahamic religions...

OK. I'm done here.

 

[henktermaat]

OK. I'm done here.

Again?

 

[KDUBCR250]

Hes God he can be whatever he wants Kinda one of the perks of the jod

 

[henktermaat]

My understanding also, is that Muslims worship the same God as the Jews. They are children of Abraham, descendants of the handmaiden and Ishmael. They refer to Jews and (I believe)Christians as other children of the Book in the Koran. To say you can refute this by comparing the character of their God and ours is a bit silly. I think any atheist that read the God of the Old Testament and compared him to the Christ in the New would swear they are unrelated as well. I am quite certain you can do some theological acrobatics to argue this but my point stands. I believe they have been led astray in their beliefs by the pedophile Mohammed though.

Sure, if you ignore logic and reason. It's no acrobatic feat to compare the two beings as described and see they aren't the same.

It's quite simple:

A. First you have Christianity, which says no one can add or take away from it. (Anything added to it is false.) Christianity proclaims Christ as God.
B. Then you have Islam, which starts off with Christianity as a partial (and I mean partial) framework; denies the basic Christian concepts (Christ is not God), and does some preemptive damage control: saying "now I'm the final word, and now one can add to it FOR REALS this time."
C. The two religions are mutually exclusive. Meaning, unable to be both true at the same time.
D. Allah and God are mutually exclusive- both cannot be real at the same time, by their "own definitions."

 

[henktermaat]

Hes God he can be whatever he wants Kinda one of the perks of the jod

Actually, no. God says he never changes.

 

[Bruenor]

This thread has all the makings of a train wreck.

 

[evansvillethompsongunner]

"Allah" and "God" are different people, by definition. "Allah" may be the word for "God" in the muslim religion, but the definitions of the person "Allah" and God are specifically different. Anyone who says that "Allah" and God are the same doesn;'t know what they are talkling about.

It's all technically the same 'god' - the three are all Abrahamic religions.

In the Muslims' piece-of-filth "holy" book, you will find many of the same figures as are present in the Christians' "holy" book, the Holy Bible as dictated by the Great 'I Am'... Mary, Joseph, Jesus of Nazareth, Noah, Abraham, etc., etc... having these figures in the Muslim text greatly encouraged converts from Christianity and Judaism in the beginning days of Islam - for people who literally believed that a man arose from an eternal, omnipotent invisible man who lives in the sky, it wasn't too much of a stretch to imagine that a messenger of this all-powerful being (who was also the being Himself) was called upon by 'God' to add onto the expositionary tale of vice and virtue told by His one and only Son.

'Allah' means, quite literally in Arabic, 'God'. So, yes, yes - both phrases do in fact refer to the same deity, regardless of whether and to what degree it outrages or upsets you... and I know I might find it very upsetting to worship - or to be considered to worship - the same deity as do roughly one billion violent adherents of a different - and thus inferior - religion. Any distinctions are based in desire, and not in fact based in Scripture, for He is in fact the sole and one true God, is He not?

 

[dburkhead]

I am of the belief that there is One God. Much as in Spanish, the word "naranjo" translates to English as "orange", yet what you call that particular fruit does not diminish nor in any way change it's sweetness, so, too, is God, God.

To carry that analogy a bit farther, though, if one person applies the term "naranjo" to a fruit with a pulpy yellow-orange flesh and a thick white rind with an outer orange-skin and another applies the word to a fruit with a firm white flesh, no rind, but a thin red, green, or yellow skin it does not make them both the same.

Just because someone uses the same word (the word for "god" in their language), even if they claim it's the same origin (thanks to the wonders of grafting, different fruits can all come from the same tree), it does not mean they are the same. Are the characteristics attributed by Muslims to their god the same characteristics as those attributed by Christians to theirs? If not, then regardless of any claims either they, or any "scholars" or apologists, might make, they are not the same, any more than an apple is the same as an orange.