IN: Institute for Justice sues over cash seizure.

[Leo]

How Indiana Stole $42,000 From a Couple Without Ever Charging Them With a Crime <<< LINK

A California couple found themselves embroiled in a legal battle with the state of Indiana despite never having set foot there after law enforcement seized their property under civil asset forfeiture.

Horsewhipping is too good for these officials. Solitary confinement for life might begin to satisfy fairness and justice.

Let's not forget the business in Logansport that legally build batmobile clones that had his business frozen when a politically connected California customer tried to screw him over.

 

[TheGrumpyGuy]

Yeah, you do, just not on hand. For me it would require logging into ADP to print my own stubs.

But I'm pretty sure folks have provided paperwork that will explain away the cash, and it was confiscated anyway. Even proof you just sold a car or an email/text that you were driving to buy a car wasnt enough to stop the confiscation.

Life,

I have to look up and down load that information, and when the system is down, you cannot retrieve it. If they have had a mandatory password change since you logged on last, it often takes 24 hours before they let you log on again. When my financial information was hacked in 1998, it was a long difficult time to get any information. Not exactly handy like when they handed you a check with stubs.

I stand corrected then. I was basing my question off both of my current employers, the one I've had for 25 years, and the other for 16 - both are DD and I get printed stubs from both.

 

[Destro]

So I am retired from law enforcement, but I did attend formal narcotics interdiction training. The circumstances could lead someone with training to believe that this was currency moving south to be taken to Mexico.

In the warrant application that he later created,
the officer identified the following “suspicious” characteristics of the parcel:
a. “A new and purchased parcel box with all seams secured with tape.”
b. “The Priority overnight shipment was paid by unknown means at a ship center.”
c. “The parcel was tendered at a FedEx ship center in Falls Church, VA.”
d. “The parcel is being shipped to a FedEx ship center for pick up, in a source State (California) and not a residence.”
e. “There is no signature required to receive the parcel.”
f. “The listed phone numbers are duplicate numbers for the sender and receiver.”
g. “The receiver’s name listed, only has a first name and no surname.”

I would be interested to hear how the state responds. More investigation probably should have been conducted, like checking out the destination.

The fact that they responded speaks for itself. If it were ill-gotten proceeds, you wouldn't hear anything. Actual mules and organizations (for the most part) don't care if funds are seized. It is a cost of doing business. On roadside currency seizures, the occupants typically can't explain why they have tens of thousands of dollars, and generally aren't upset if it is seized, as long as you provide them a property receipt. If they provide the organization with proof of seizure by law enforcement, it is written off and they try again.

 

[maxipum]

So I am retired from law enforcement, but I did attend formal narcotics interdiction training. The circumstances could lead someone with training to believe that this was currency moving south to be taken to Mexico.

In the warrant application that he later created,
the officer identified the following “suspicious” characteristics of the parcel:
a. “A new and purchased parcel box with all seams secured with tape.”
b. “The Priority overnight shipment was paid by unknown means at a ship center.”
c. “The parcel was tendered at a FedEx ship center in Falls Church, VA.”
d. “The parcel is being shipped to a FedEx ship center for pick up, in a source State (California) and not a residence.”
e. “There is no signature required to receive the parcel.”
f. “The listed phone numbers are duplicate numbers for the sender and receiver.”
g. “The receiver’s name listed, only has a first name and no surname.”

I would be interested to hear how the state responds. More investigation probably should have been conducted, like checking out the destination.

The fact that they responded speaks for itself. If it were ill-gotten proceeds, you wouldn't hear anything. Actual mules and organizations (for the most part) don't care if funds are seized. It is a cost of doing business. On roadside currency seizures, the occupants typically can't explain why they have tens of thousands of dollars, and generally aren't upset if it is seized, as long as you provide them a property receipt. If they provide the organization with proof of seizure by law enforcement, it is written off and they try again.

None of what is stated in your post proves a crime was committed. This BS needs to stop yesterday. It should cost careers, pensions and freedom of the officers involved. Nothing more than theft with a badge.

 

[Cameramonkey]

None of what is stated in your post proves a crime was committed. This BS needs to stop yesterday. It should cost careers, pensions and freedom of the officers involved. Nothing more than theft with a badge.

Agreed. Maybe enough to "follow" the package for further RAS once a person picks it up. But none of those warrant seizure. Unless you have a guilty until proven innocent mentality.

Its no different than treating someone like a criminal simply because they are tatted up.

 

[Creedmoor]

So I am retired from law enforcement, but I did attend formal narcotics interdiction training. The circumstances could lead someone with training to believe that this was currency moving south to be taken to Mexico.

In the warrant application that he later created,
the officer identified the following “suspicious” characteristics of the parcel:
a. “A new and purchased parcel box with all seams secured with tape.”
b. “The Priority overnight shipment was paid by unknown means at a ship center.”
c. “The parcel was tendered at a FedEx ship center in Falls Church, VA.”
d. “The parcel is being shipped to a FedEx ship center for pick up, in a source State (California) and not a residence.”
e. “There is no signature required to receive the parcel.”
f. “The listed phone numbers are duplicate numbers for the sender and receiver.”
g. “The receiver’s name listed, only has a first name and no surname.”

I would be interested to hear how the state responds. More investigation probably should have been conducted, like checking out the destination.

The fact that they responded speaks for itself. If it were ill-gotten proceeds, you wouldn't hear anything. Actual mules and organizations (for the most part) don't care if funds are seized. It is a cost of doing business. On roadside currency seizures, the occupants typically can't explain why they have tens of thousands of dollars, and generally aren't upset if it is seized, as long as you provide them a property receipt. If they provide the organization with proof of seizure by law enforcement, it is written off and they try again.

Sounds like just about every package that I have sent my sons when they are working or deployed overseas. I average one a week to every 10 days for 6 years now.

 

[tim87tr]

None of what is stated in your post proves a crime was committed. This BS needs to stop yesterday. It should cost careers, pensions and freedom of the officers involved. Nothing more than theft with a badge.

I typed this below yesterday and didn't post but since it's gone there I will now

Precrime, predictive policing based on precognitive abilities currently called civil asset forteiture. Maybe I'll read the book but have seen the Minority Report film.

Bill of Rights have been openly attacked with lawfare and it's taking a lot of litigation to attempt a correction. Definitely escalating in the last few years. Remember the forum debates if it was constitutional to shut down the country and have mandates? That's how personal rights get degraded and dissolved.

 

[Alamo]

Arrest and seizure don’t, nor should they, require that definitive “proof” of a crime has occurred, but there should be strong evidence that something is amiss. Probable cause of an actual crime in other words.

But the asset seizure has turned this on its head. The characteristics Destro listed from his training would seem to be a reasonable basis to investigate more, like follow the money to destination and see who picks it up. But to simply grab it absent evidence of a crime and say “now prove your money is innocent” is not right.

And to the extent that a police agency gets to keep any part of what it seizes is such an incentive to go out of bounds that it seems corrupt on its face.

 

[racegunz]

Agreed. Maybe enough to "follow" the package for further RAS once a person picks it up. But none of those warrant seizure. Unless you have a guilty until proven innocent mentality.

Its no different than treating someone like a criminal simply because they are tatted up.

From my recent experience the police are just as "tatted up". so maybe not an issue?
Off topic, my apologies.

 

[Leo]

I think I know, but where does the money go once it is seized?

 

[Cameramonkey]

I think I know, but where does the money go once it is seized?

police budgets I believe.

 

[Creedmoor]

From my recent experience the police are just as "tatted up". so maybe not an issue?
Off topic, my apologies.

Just as "tatted up" as in what or who?

 

[TheGrumpyGuy]

Just as "tatted up" as in what or who?

Agreed. Maybe enough to "follow" the package for further RAS once a person picks it up. But none of those warrant seizure. Unless you have a guilty until proven innocent mentality.

Its no different than treating someone like a criminal simply because they are tatted up.

From my recent experience the police are just as "tatted up". so maybe not an issue?
Off topic, my apologies.

 

[Destro]

None of what is stated in your post proves a crime was committed. This BS needs to stop yesterday. It should cost careers, pensions and freedom of the officers involved. Nothing more than theft with a badge.

It is not going to cost careers because this stuff is in established law. You need to start holding your elected officials accountable if you want action on this stuff. They don't need to prove a crime is committed. This is a civil action and civil rules apply. They just need a preponderance of evidence.

Society is in a circular insanity with law enforcement in the United States. It is not the fault of the police if they are crappy and you don't like their performance. It is the fault of those who hire, train, and empower them.

 

[racegunz]

Just as "tatted up" as in what or who?

Huh? Not sure what you are asking me here. Cops have tattoos, a lot of them sometimes.

 

[racegunz]

It is not going to cost careers because this stuff is in established law. You need to start holding your elected officials accountable if you want action on this stuff. They don't need to prove a crime is committed. This is a civil action and civil rules apply. They just need a preponderance of evidence.

Society is in a circular insanity with law enforcement in the United States. It is not the fault of the police if they are crappy and you don't like their performance. It is the fault of those who hire, train, and empower them.

Yep first step is get the law changed. Getting humans to be moral and not tend towards corruption is not gonna happen. Make it harder to reap the rewards of theft and it will decrease.
Send the article to your representatives and local law enforcement leaders and ask for a response.

 

[Creedmoor]

Huh? Not sure what you are asking me here. Cops have tattoos, a lot of them sometimes.

In you opinion is that good or bad?

 

[racegunz]

In you opinion is that good or bad?

Neither really, I don’t base my opinions of people on appearances. Thus my original post. Since a lot of cops are tattooed I doubt they are profiling people with tattoos. Most likely too busy stealing easy cash shipments at FedEx to bother.

 

[racegunz]

Here’s a question to any leo that has been involved in this at Fedex.
How did you get access? Warrant?
Did Fedex cooperate? Ask anything in return?
How many leo personnel involved?
Is this a daily operation?
Could the resources be used better on stopping actual criminal activities locally?

I’m sending these same questions to my representatives and Fedex. Let’s see if they respond.

 

[buckwacker]

It is not going to cost careers because this stuff is in established law. You need to start holding your elected officials accountable if you want action on this stuff. They don't need to prove a crime is committed. This is a civil action and civil rules apply. They just need a preponderance of evidence.

Society is in a circular insanity with law enforcement in the United States. It is not the fault of the police if they are crappy and you don't like their performance. It is the fault of those who hire, train, and empower them.

As an officer, are you forced by your leadership to seize property under civil asset forfeiture if all the boxes are ticked, or do you have discretion?