IMPD Gets New Toys

[$mooth]

If you think that this isn't easily scalable then you're being naive. I'm not saying it will be done this way, but that it can be done.
Next step: Auto refresh plate numbers during the day (this is to help amber alert victims real time)
Then: switch gears; instead of loading the database to the car, let the car check the database.
Then: Why limit it to police cruisers, use the street monitoring cameras (like the one on Broad Ripple Ave) for the same. Same justifications.
Eventually: Scan and track all vehicles. It's for the public's safety. That way when a new vehicle pops up in the list, we know where to find it.


I'm not a conspiracy theorist, just a realist. If you think our communications can't handle the data, give it a year. A few more for facial recognition software to be included too.

The logic of "I'm not doing anything wrong" isn't the right approach. You should be asking, "Do I need civil liberties?" and "Does the gov't have a need to know about my personal business?"

 

[Tactical Dave]

People seem to want the cops to more but when they have the tools to do more they get mad.......


They say get rid of the scanners but then their car gets stolen and they get mad because the cops can't find it....... because it is say a Blue Honda Civic and we know how many thousands of Blue Civics there are in the city........ and a cop would be at it all day runing the plates of every blue civic that he sees..... also remembering that they all look pretty much alike for a few years before the body style is changes a bit (same goes for any car/truck/suv/bike).

Or a cop is checking out a car that he is alerted to by the system but someone gets mad because they were robed around the corner and the cop would have been there on patrol if he did not stop.......

You can never ever keep everyone happy.......

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

On the BMV side, they do not have the capabilities to connect "yet".

The software the BMV is currently using was written for a single purpose. To have another capability added means the State has to re-bid it to the software companies to have the software modified or rewritten. There is not a literal or figurative switch to be flipped to add the capability that is being discussed here.

 

[$mooth]

On the BMV side, they do not have the capabilities to connect "yet".

The software the BMV is currently using was written for a single purpose. To have another capability added means the State has to re-bid it to the software companies to have the software modified or rewritten. There is not a literal or figurative switch to be flipped to add the capability that is being discussed here.

Agreed. But it is not a significant undertaking either. 2 of my software guys could have that in field testing in 12-18 months.

 

[SavageEagle]

um black sharpee on the barcode

Wouldn't really worry about it if it is as Denny says. Although, if it COULD do more, you'd need more than a sharpie. A couple strips of electrical tape vertically in the barcode works.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

One thing about this, 5 cars at about $20k apiece. But they couldn't afford the cameras that are now required for taping questioning about felony's?

Geez guys chill. I am thinking you do not know how these operate. Well, they do NOT run lic plates through BMV like you may think. It is a computer that every morning they load the plate numbers of the stolen vehicles from reports we take. It needs to be updated everyday to add new ones and removes vehicles that have been recovered. The readers check the plates it sees to the ones we tell it we are looking for. Nothing "big brother" about it. There is no driver information included...only that the plate/vehicle is listed as stolen. Our communication system is light years away from being able to support running BMV info for every plate the reader sees.

Denny you know more about the system than I do, do they have the capability or the potential to be upgraded to record the plates they scan? And do you know if they have GPS capabilities?

I think I've heard of some that do, they record the plate and GPS coordinates. That sounds a bit big brotherish to me.

They say get rid of the scanners but then their car gets stolen and they get mad because the cops can't find it....... because it is say a Blue Honda Civic and we know how many thousands of Blue Civics there are in the city........ and a cop would be at it all day runing the plates of every blue civic that he sees..... also remembering that they all look pretty much alike for a few years before the body style is changes a bit (same goes for any car/truck/suv/bike).

And what is to stop thieves since they know about this system and how it works, from just swapping the plates every night? Just pull the plate off the stolen vehicle and swap it with a similar one. The innocent driver is going to get pulled over and they'll figure it out, but the plate that was stolen off their car won't be put into the system until the next day.

And since the plates aren't uploaded till the next day, how many stolen cars do you think will be recovered? From what I've heard most stolen cars are either stripped or dumped in a day or two.

Wouldn't really worry about it if it is as Denny says. Although, if it COULD do more, you'd need more than a sharpie. A couple strips of electrical tape vertically in the barcode works.

Not sure about these scanners, but a black sharpie works wonders for the ones I've used. Fill in the space between a line or two and...... It was done occasionally as a joke where I worked. Or as a training aid for new guys.

 

[E5RANGER375]

People seem to want the cops to more but when they have the tools to do more they get mad.......


They say get rid of the scanners but then their car gets stolen and they get mad because the cops can't find it....... because it is say a Blue Honda Civic and we know how many thousands of Blue Civics there are in the city........ and a cop would be at it all day runing the plates of every blue civic that he sees..... also remembering that they all look pretty much alike for a few years before the body style is changes a bit (same goes for any car/truck/suv/bike).

Or a cop is checking out a car that he is alerted to by the system but someone gets mad because they were robed around the corner and the cop would have been there on patrol if he did not stop.......

You can never ever keep everyone happy.......

if my car gets stolen, i will file a police report for insurance purposes. but trust me, i will not be relying on the cops to find it. they could care less. your in a sea of others.
I will be looking for it myself, and the perps better pray the cops find them first.

and the reason they cant keep everyone happy is because they have weasled their way into everything they shouldnt be involved in. I believe in personal justice also when you catch them in the act.

 

[Denny347]

Denny you know more about the system than I do, do they have the capability or the potential to be upgraded to record the plates they scan? And do you know if they have GPS capabilities?

I think I've heard of some that do, they record the plate and GPS coordinates. That sounds a bit big brotherish to me.

I have a friend that has one of the equipped cars, he has no GPS and they do not record what plates they scan. I believe in THEORY it is possible, but we are talking hundreds and hundreds of plates per day. Remember that they are not linked to BMW so we would have a list of plate numbers with locations but no information about the plates. We would have to manually run each plate through BMV for owner information. We would also need to know the plate type (there are about 30 of them...pass car, truck, In God We Trust, universities, etc etc) and then we need to know the year of expiration...all to run the plates through BMV. Not as easy as it sounds when you are talking hundreds of plates. MECA's data system that connects us to BMV is so slow that we cannot even get BMV photos when we run a single driver's license through BMV...something we have been yelling at them for years to correct. No one wants to spend the millions of dollars to upgrade that. We are WAY TOO FAR AWAY from big brother tech to even lose one minute of sleep over it.

And what is to stop thieves since they know about this system and how it works, from just swapping the plates every night? Just pull the plate off the stolen vehicle and swap it with a similar one. The innocent driver is going to get pulled over and they'll figure it out, but the plate that was stolen off their car won't be put into the system until the next day.

They already do, they know that we cannot trace paper dealer tags since they do not go through BMV. I cannot run them. So, they get ripped off of peoples new cars so they can be placed on a stolen car.

 

[Lex Concord]

Geez guys chill. I am thinking you do not know how these operate. Well, they do NOT run lic plates through BMV like you may think. It is a computer that every morning they load the plate numbers of the stolen vehicles from reports we take. It needs to be updated everyday to add new ones and removes vehicles that have been recovered. The readers check the plates it sees to the ones we tell it we are looking for. Nothing "big brother" about it. There is no driver information included...only that the plate/vehicle is listed as stolen. Our communication system is light years away from being able to support running BMV info for every plate the reader sees.

Obviously I can't speak to how IMPD has them wired up, but recent national stories indicate that these systems can (and in some places ARE) being used to store the time/location of every scanned plate.

Such a DB could easily and quickly be mined to create suspect lists based on whose car was in a given area during a certain time frame.

Regarding my earlier post, there are sprays and license plate covers in existence, but their target is to reduce Radar and Lidar signatures, and to cause overexposure of flash photography typically used by red light cameras.

These units (http://pipstechnology.com/images/uploads/library/PSS5055_Slate_Camera19Apr10.pdf ) use infrared lighting and would not likely be thrown off by any such products currently on the market.

EDIT: Here we go...this article quotes the Motorola (not the only manufacturer) literature on the product which touts the capabilities of concern above... License-plate readers becoming a fixture in local police arsenals | Center for Investigative Reporting

 

[Lex Concord]

Wouldn't really worry about it if it is as Denny says. Although, if it COULD do more, you'd need more than a sharpie. A couple strips of electrical tape vertically in the barcode works.

I could be wrong, but these cameras are more likely reading the actual numbers/letters on the plate, using script-recognition technology, as opposed to the bar code. Remember, they are sold nationally to various agencies. Not all states have bar codes, but all of them have letters and or numbers.

 

[Duncan]

Geez guys chill. I am thinking you do not know how these operate. Well, they do NOT run lic plates through BMV like you may think. It is a computer that every morning they load the plate numbers of the stolen vehicles from reports we take. It needs to be updated everyday to add new ones and removes vehicles that have been recovered. The readers check the plates it sees to the ones we tell it we are looking for. Nothing "big brother" about it. There is no driver information included...only that the plate/vehicle is listed as stolen. Our communication system is light years away from being able to support running BMV info for every plate the reader sees.

OK .... for the sake of argument you're correct

For today .

When I was a kid ... AM FM radio was the size of two decks of playing cards ... now half of that size is a Star Trek Communicator / cell phone ... it's gonna be about money in the end ... look at the red light camera scams that happened around the country and the court cases that ruled against them in
in California .

 

[$mooth]

I always thought the sprays and "shields" were illegal to have on a car. At least in Virginia I was told they were. Talked about them 8+ years ago for red light cams. Denny, do you know?

 

[downzero]

Note the quote on page 3 where they don't want the public policing the police. That idiot has a lot to learn about who he works for.

 

[Denny347]

I always thought the sprays and "shields" were illegal to have on a car. At least in Virginia I was told they were. Talked about them 8+ years ago for red light cams. Denny, do you know?

Yes, if I see a plate that has any covering on it, I can stop it and issue a ticket.
IC 9-18-2-26
License plates; display
Sec. 26. (a) License plates shall be displayed as follows:
(1) For a motorcycle, trailer, semitrailer, or recreational vehicle, upon the rear of the vehicle.
(2) For a tractor or dump truck, upon the front of the vehicle.
(3) For every other vehicle, upon the rear of the vehicle.
(b) A license plate shall be securely fastened, in a horizontal position, to the vehicle for which the plate is issued:
(1) to prevent the license plate from swinging;
(2) at a height of at least twelve (12) inches from the ground, measuring from the bottom of the license plate;
(3) in a place and position that are clearly visible;
(4) maintained free from foreign materials and in a condition to be clearly legible; and
(5) not obstructed or obscured by tires, bumpers, accessories, or other opaque objects.
(c) The bureau may adopt rules the bureau considers advisable to enforce the proper mounting and securing of license plates on vehicles consistent with this chapter.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Just because a person has a ltch doesn't always mean they have a gun on them or are carrying one.

That would be a very irresponsible act.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Super Photo Radar and Laser Camera Protector for Cars and Trucks - Photo Radar at Radar Busters

Solution, I have had mine for years, no photo ticket yet.

These are worthless. Don't you watch Mythbusters?

 

[SavageEagle]

These are worthless. Don't you watch Mythbusters?

I trust about 10% of what I see on Mythbusters. They're only good for seeing things blow up!

 

[tenring]

Run a strong magnet over the Bar Code, works wonders.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Run a strong magnet over the Bar Code, works wonders.

I don't think a magnet will do crap to a bar code. All it is, is ink. Like the UPC symbol on a can of soup. The strip on the back of credit/debit or things like that, yes a magnet will play havoc on them.

 

[VUPDblue]

Run a strong magnet over the Bar Code, works wonders.