If they pass Socialized Healthcare, will you fight it?

[SavageEagle]

You're not paying the bill by getting a rate hike. You don't get rate hikes if I don't pay my bill. Your higher insurance rate goes to the insurance company, not the hospital. My aunt worked in medical billing and accounting until she passed away of cancer 4 months ago. I know what I'm talking about.

 

[psalm147.5]

Insurance

The new insurance bill, as all bills, is hundreds of pages long and full of mumble jumble hiding many things that will benefit the government. I have not had time to fully read the bill, but I currently am uninsured due to being turned down by most insurances because of my prior history of multiple injuries and surgeries. So how can the government penalize me for not having insurance when the privatized billion dollar a year scandalous insurance companies won't afford me the opportunity to carry insurance?

 

[6birds]

You're not paying the bill by getting a rate hike. You don't get rate hikes if I don't pay my bill. Your higher insurance rate goes to the insurance company, not the hospital. My aunt worked in medical billing and accounting until she passed away of cancer 4 months ago. I know what I'm talking about.

Sorry to hear about your Aunt, that's terrible.

Hospital raises all procedure rates to cover "Unpaid Emergency Visits".

Insurance pays new higher procedure rates.

6Birds pays new higher Insurance rates to cover the new higher procedure rates..

Still paid by me, you just missed a few steps.

If you cannot pay, you cannot play. Having me pay for someone who does not pay, or cannot pay, is no different that government healthcare. I get no say in the matter. Either way, I'm footing the bill.

Is there another solution you have in mind?

Where do we draw the line? The Dems want to open it to all.

 

[SavageEagle]

The new insurance bill, as all bills, is hundreds of pages long and full of mumble jumble hiding many things that will benefit the government. I have not had time to fully read the bill, but I currently am uninsured due to being turned down by most insurances because of my prior history of multiple injuries and surgeries. So how can the government penalize me for not having insurance when the privatized billion dollar a year scandalous insurance companies won't afford me the opportunity to carry insurance?

Because the government is going to force those companies to insure you. Insurance companies don't care about the people they insure. They are there to make money. It is a company after all. I don't blame them for not wanting to take risks on people who are going to require tens of thousands of dollars of medical bill money. I know that sounds cold hearted, and I'm sorry for your situation. I'm sure there's at least one insurance company out there that will insure you but I'm also sure they'll charge you an arm and a leg for it too.

That's the problem though. The government is trying to force these insurance companies to do things. It's basically government take over of the industry, but in a weak sense. Banks, auto companies, now insurance companies? What's next? Construction companies? Computer companies? Small businesses?

 

[ATF Consumer]

That's the problem though. The government is trying to force these insurance companies to do things. It's basically government take over of the industry, but in a weak sense. Banks, auto companies, now insurance companies? What's next? Construction companies? Computer companies? Small businesses?

Yes, we are quickly becoming a fascist state.
Before we know it, we will have lost all rights to property if we don't stand our ground.

 

[mainjet]

Why is eveyone so sure that because you have employer provided health care now that you will have it when this bill passes? I can tell you that the very first thing that a small business will do is drop the medical insurance for their employees.

Even if there are penalties, these penalties would have to equal more than the amount that the company would save by not providing insurance. Health insurance is a HUGE expense for employers and employers really would like nothing more than to feel that they do not need to provide it.

Now let's move on to insurance companies. These are businesses... The government can push them only so far before it is no longer in their best interest to provide health insurance to employees of small businesses. Read that as them loosing money by taking on all comers including pre existing conditions. They could just go into auto insurance and home insurance, etc. But the government is under some delusion that they can vilify the insurance companies and force them to insure anyone that the government says they have to.

Put yourself in the position of the insurance company and ask yourself how you would react. In fact, you are already doing that by the OP question in this thread. You as private citizens are saying "No, we can't do this". Can the government force the insurance companies to loose money before the insurance company finally says we don't provide health insurance?

What if insurance companies came out and said we are done, we are not providing health insurance, auto insurance or home owners insurance? I know they will be out of business but where would this country be? What trouble would our government have then? No mortgages because you must carry home owners insurance. Every single person on the public health insurance plan. No car loans because you have no insurance.

The government is going to overstep until someone pushes back hard at the risk to their own health or business just to be free again. This has happened before and we are headed there again.

Ditches don't get dug by the people that plan them. They get dug by people with shovels in their hands. So keep taking more and more money from the working man and what you end up with is nobody able or willing to work. Since the government doesn't have a job and their only source of income is us, what will they do when they have pushed us until we finally just say a collective, NO"!?

Some time look a t what is taken out of your check in health insurance. Then, go ask your boss how muche they pay toward your health insurance. Now mutliply that figure by the number of employees and then come back and tell me if you think businesses will stop offering insurance to their employees. I acutally think that the government knows this and will empose a fine to make it look like they are strying to stop it. But the fine will be less than the amount the employer now pays. Why would the government do that? Because they want everyone at the public trough where they can be controlled better....

 

[ATF Consumer]

Sounds kinda like Atlas Shurgged.

 

[Eddie]

Probably won't stop but...

I agree most with 6bird's last post. I don't think that the insurance companies will stop selling insurance. They will be forced to insure a bunch of people that they don't want to insure. They will raise their rates to cover their increased costs. Employer's won't want to pay the higher rates so they will increase the amount that their employees pay for insurance. At that point those of us who are working to provide insurance for our families are now supplying insurance for everyone else. Sure, its not a tax, your paycheck just gets smaller.

ATF is right, its like Atlas Shrugged with fewer and fewer of us working to keep supporting a system that bleeds us dry.

 

[mainjet]

They will be forced to insure a bunch of people that they don't want to insure. They will raise their rates to cover their increased costs.

Raise their rates? Wait a mintue I thought that this was one of the issues that started this whole thing. The government isn't going to let them raise their rates will they? Sure they will, because then the government seems cheaper and people will come on board. Then there will be so many on board that the people will have to be taxed more to generate enough funds to pay for the people being insured. Getting dizzy yet?

It's all a negotiation but one of the parties has the ability to just finally make a new rule. So they act like you are both negotiating and the insurance companies are forced to a certain point to go along. But then they get pushed so far that they will not make any money so they say, "I'm done". Then the government wins, or do they!??

 

[Eddie]

Raising Rates

They can't say that insurance companies can never raise their rates again. Prices have to be able to fluctuate with the market. What they will do is assign oversight of the rate increases to a government entity. We will probably pay some extra taxes to help support the bureaucracy that oversees the rate increases...

 

[mainjet]

They can't say that insurance companies can never raise their rates again. Prices have to be able to fluctuate with the market. What they will do is assign oversight of the rate increases to a government entity. We will probably pay some extra taxes to help support the bureaucracy that oversees the rate increases...

Oversight should fix it. I know that it did real well in watching the banking industry.

We also believed that the government could not take our land and give it to private parties but they did. Kelo v. City of New London.

Car dealerships were just taken away from people that own them and given to other people. This happened just this summer.

If you think that the government "can't just do that" then your assuming way to much. I used to believe this way also. But in the last year I cannot believe what our government has done. Years ago you would have wondered how this could possibly take place and now you know. It happens one vote at a time, one bribe at a time ($300 million to Louisiana for a vote by Landrieu). The people of Louisiana say great $300 mil for us but at what cost to your country? We shall see.

 

[SavageEagle]

They can't say that insurance companies can never raise their rates again. Prices have to be able to fluctuate with the market. What they will do is assign oversight of the rate increases to a government entity. We will probably pay some extra taxes to help support the bureaucracy that oversees the rate increases...

Did you know this was in the bill or was this just an assumption? Either way, it was reported to be in the bill. A whole agency to oversee the insurance industry. It's reported to be set up to look like the Fed in how it oversees interest rates. I don't know if it stayed in the bill or not, but it WAS in there. I'll have to go back through my emails later and see if I can find it.

 

[nawainwright]

Oversight should fix it. I know that it did real well in watching the banking industry.

We also believed that the government could not take our land and give it to private parties but they did. Kelo v. City of New London.

Car dealerships were just taken away from people that own them and given to other people. This happened just this summer.

If you think that the government "can't just do that" then your assuming way to much. I used to believe this way also. But in the last year I cannot believe what our government has done. Years ago you would have wondered how this could possibly take place and now you know. It happens one vote at a time, one bribe at a time ($300 million to Louisiana for a vote by Landrieu). The people of Louisiana say great $300 mil for us but at what cost to your country? We shall see.

You're making the unfortunate distinction that that money went to "help" someone. It did not and will not. Just like the rest of the pork projects, they have nothing to do with "helping" the citizens of those states. They are payoffs to donors.

I know thats not your main point But I gotta gent my in

This is where we need to make a distinction though. I have no idea how much money Indiana receives in pork barrel projects...you know why? Cause none of those projects are directed toward helping me. They may end up helping me, but there is a big difference between "helping me" and me "being helped".

 

[duckhunt]

Think of this:

When the government first introduced medicare to the americans told everyone the estimated costs. There estimate was off by 900%. What if this happens with Obama-care too?

 

[mainjet]

You're making the unfortunate distinction that that money went to "help" someone. It did not and will not. Just like the rest of the pork projects, they have nothing to do with "helping" the citizens of those states. They are payoffs to donors.

Right - that's why I said it was a bribe. It does go to her state but the few pennies that trickle down to the people will not buy a candy bar. But the poeple of Louisiana think that they are getting 300 billion dollars.

Today Barack again used his scare tactics that he does everytime he wants something passed right away. He said that if this bill was not passed the Federal Government will go bankrupt. He said Medicare and medicaide are on an unstustainable path. They sure are! But how is adding everyone to the publc trough going to make this not happen?

We are going to to go bankrupt all right and he is going to make darn sure of it!

 

[6birds]

I have insurance through my work. My concern is that I am going to be forced to pay for someone else's insurance by means of increased taxes or that the cost of my insurance will go up because of this legislation. I am not inhuman but I think that there is already more than enough coming out of my paycheck to fund all sorts of programs that I don't benefit from while I have to use the remaining money that my government leaves me to take care of my own family.

THIS... and

"The hospital would no longer take patients that either didn't have insurance or pass a credit check or bring a bag full of money with them. "

THIS!

Merry
Christmas

 

[Eddie]

First version

Did you know this was in the bill or was this just an assumption? Either way, it was reported to be in the bill. A whole agency to oversee the insurance industry. It's reported to be set up to look like the Fed in how it oversees interest rates. I don't know if it stayed in the bill or not, but it WAS in there. I'll have to go back through my emails later and see if I can find it.

It was in the very first bill, the one that they are no longer considering. Its just a hunch that this is the way they will handle it; by creating yet another mindless, souless bureaucracy.

 

[PatMcGroyne]

You really DO have choices to make.

Vote them ALL OUT in 2010. Pat

 

[Phil502]

I'm sorry, but I think you fail to understand how uninsured health care gets paid for.

I don't have health insurance, but I got a kidney stone. They gave me CAT Scan, drugs, the whole works. I should have just gone writhing in pain in my own home and started chugging the rest of my Hennessy cause it all cost me $3676 just for that. I just opened the bill I got today. It gives me a phone number to call to arrange payments.

Payments.

No one else pays for it but me. Not medicare/caid, not any kind of welfare, I pay for it.

But if you want to pay my medical bill, be my guest. I have enough bills to worry about!

You see, I don't have 3600 dollars to pay at the ER while I'm waiting for care or for my wife to bring the car around. The hospital would no longer take patients that either didn't have insurance or pass a credit check or bring a bag full of money with them. That would be horrible and I hope you didn't mean it like that.

I know for sure cash payers can get a discount. I am not sure if they will give you the discount after the service is provided as was necessary in your case. Payment recieved by the hospital from insurance and medicare/medicaid is around 50% of the billed amount. Might be worth a shot to see if they will cut it down.

 

[SavageEagle]

I know for sure cash payers can get a discount. I am not sure if they will give you the discount after the service is provided as was necessary in your case. Payment recieved by the hospital from insurance and medicare/medicaid is around 50% of the billed amount. Might be worth a shot to see if they will cut it down.

I have an appointment the 28th to talk about my bill. It sounds like since I'm not yet employed I may have a shot at getting my bill reduced. Even if I do get this 3rd shift job I'm getting interviewed for Friday, I'm still not going to have the money to pay them heaps and lumps with. I've got other bills that come first and my truck needs fixed so I have reliable transportation.