I Took An Oath!

[Pocketman]

In our government, nobody even calls anybody on it. And when they "sort of" do, usually it is just posturing for a later compromise.

The Constitution is a fairly simple document or contract between a people (us) and an elected governing body. There are so many ways built into the constitution to hold individual representatives accountable, with the checks and balances on the three legs of our federal government.

Ultimately we the people must take our government back.

Which is what the founders intended. They counted on us to not allow the government to take advantage and get out of control. We have let them pass laws that violate the constitution (violate the contract) and we just vote them back in.

I'm sick of it.

Don't get me wrong, I took the oath several times myself and feel the frustration with our current government. At issue here is the "violation" of the Constitution that people keep referring to. I won't argue that there are laws and actions that seem unconstitutional to me, but my opinion does not constitute fact. In the Constitution, the Framers created an independent Supreme Court to have the final judgement on such matters. Therefore, according to the Constitution, an action is not unconstituional unless SCOTUS deems it so. Regardless of what SCOTUS rules, some will disagree, but that doesn't really matter from a legal perspective.

What has anyone within the current government continued to do contrary to a SCOTUS ruler?

"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it." -George W. Bush

 

[Manan]

SCOTUS is as bad as presidents and congress. Sometimes I think the French did it right.

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--....."

 

[John Galt]

We currently have the government that our Founding Fathers tried to protect us from. The cool part is that we get to live in one of "those" periods in history where, 200 years from now, some of us could be called heroes for standing up for what is "right". Again! Get involved in 2012.

 

[dross]

We currently have the government that our Founding Fathers tried to protect us from. The cool part is that we get to live in one of "those" periods in history where, 200 years from now, some of us could be called heroes for standing up for what is "right". Again! Get involved in 2012.

I wish someone would point out this golden period when we didn't have a government that ignored our Constitution.

 

[Manan]

We currently have the government that our Founding Fathers tried to protect us from......

EXACTLY.

 

[Stschil]

I wish someone would point out this golden period when we didn't have a government that ignored our Constitution.

So what is it that you are saying? We deserve what we have, so why rock the boat?

I've read your posts for over a year and, though we've never met, I know you to be a very intelligent, thoughtful, well reasoned person. Are you merely playing Devil's Advocate?


True, the bastardization of the Constitution started the instant it was signed, but it remains the Law of the Land and imperfect as it may be in some respects, it still places the ultimate power of governance in the hands of the Governed. Is it such a stretch of imagination to believe that perhaps this may be the time that the Governed rise to the occasion and take back the responsibilities?

 

[ZombieApocolypse]

Who would decide when someone violated the Bill of Rights?

It should be The People vs. the Violator imo

 

[ThrottleJockey]

So what is it that you are saying? We deserve what we have, so why rock the boat?

True, the bastardization of the Constitution started the instant it was signed, but it remains the Law of the Land and imperfect as it may be in some respects, it still places the ultimate power of governance in the hands of the Governed. Is it such a stretch of imagination to believe that perhaps this may be the time that the Governed rise to the occasion and take back the responsibilities?

We need no constitution for this to hold true. We are each the farmers of our own destiny. Live as a FREE MAN with honor and integrity, the oath we swore was on a (insert book or deity of choice here), the maker WILL enforce it.

 

[maxmayhem]

who enforces the oath

the people who vote have the power to enforce the constitution but people in this country are to interested in ME ME ME to care about the direction of their country

As I read the news about the way congress and the President flagrantly ignore the Constitution of the United Sates I wonder.... Who enforces the Oath?

I have served in the Army and the Air National Guard, been a Deputy Sheriff and a State Trooper. In everyone of my positions I raised my right hand and swore an Oath. I swore....

To support and defend The Constitution of the United States of America against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic, so help me God.

I always replied that I would. Every congressman, senator, president and supreme court justice has taken that same oath. How is it they get away with not following the constitution?

I never swore to protect the government. I never swore to protect the democratic or republican party. I never swore to protect the president or even the supreme court.

Who would bring a charge against a public official who willfully violates his oath of office?

It's sad. It makes them ALL liars.

 

[Stschil]

We need no constitution for this to hold true. We are each the farmers of our own destiny. Live as a FREE MAN with honor and integrity, the oath we swore was on a (insert book or deity of choice here), the maker WILL enforce it.

I agree! However, having made a choice to live in this Nation, whether born to it and remained or traveled to it seeking liberty and prosperity, I feel that we have a Duty to it. To uphold these oaths for the betterment of all. That is not to say that one should subject themselves to the whims and wishes of others, I merely mean that We should strive to achieve a society whereby each Free Citizen takes responsibility for themselves and their well being as well as the greater task of being willing, ready, and able to assist those who, as we all sometimes do, find themselves in temporary need.
Freedom for one is not good enough, it only maintains the status quo.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I agree! However, having made a choice to live in this Nation, whether born to it and remained or traveled to it seeking liberty and prosperity, I feel that we have a Duty to it. To uphold these oaths for the betterment of all. That is not to say that one should subject themselves to the whims and wishes of others, I merely mean that We should strive to achieve a society whereby each Free Citizen takes responsibility for themselves and their well being as well as the greater task of being willing, ready, and able to assist those who, as we all sometimes do, find themselves in temporary need.
Freedom for one is not good enough, it only maintains the status quo.

I agree, but unfortunately this is NOT the nation I was born to, nor is it the nation my oath was to defend. That nation ceased to exist somewhere through the period of my lifetime leaving this hollow shell of politically correct intentions and patriotism as a cover in it's place.

 

[Manan]

In every election we seem to give the government more and more power over more and more facets of our lives. We reward the men (people) with the BIGGEST and most successful idea's reelection after reelection. Our citizens seem to continue to want more and more government in our lives and to settle any imperfection of our society for us.

Is that the purpose of a Republican form of government? Is it governments purpose to smooth out the bumps in our life? To make my life easier?

When we don't "man up" and show a very strong disdain for the encroachment of government into our natural freedoms, then we shall get just exactly what we deserve.

Can you imagine,....someday.....they might tell us what we can eat, or how we can light our homes, or how, when, or if we can protect ourselves or our families.... No, that day could never come!

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Can you imagine,....someday.....they might tell us what we can eat, or how we can light our homes, or how, when, or if we can protect ourselves or our families.... No that day could never come.

LOL, that would be the day!!! Could you imagine if they ever tried that crap? Who do they think they are?
I tried to rep you, but I must spread it around first.

 

[RichardR]

I to have taken the Oath and wanted to enforce it. But I am not sure if I could use it as a defense in court.

^^this^^

There is no legal individual immunity granted for folks who commit what would otherwise be considered "crimes" for full-filling the requirements of their oaths.

If there was, there would probably be a new President of the United States of America every 4 months or so.

I am sorry but that's just the way it is.

 

[Stschil]

I agree, but unfortunately this is NOT the nation I was born to, nor is it the nation my oath was to defend. That nation ceased to exist somewhere through the period of my lifetime leaving this hollow shell of politically correct intentions and patriotism as a cover in it's place.

Sadly Sir, I must concede that you are correct. Hopefully, there will be enough of us who remember still around when the time comes to put things back in order. I believe that time is close at hand.....

 

[Bitter Clinger]

God bless the oathkeepers.

 

[dross]

So what is it that you are saying? We deserve what we have, so why rock the boat?

No, I'm not saying either of those things.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is no system we can set up that will prevent people from violating the Constitution or whatever other document we set up after the revolution some people want to have.

You set up some ironclad rules that outline exactly what your government may do. You must, however, set up a system that deals with the details the principles don't cover. For instance, you set up a law that says Congress can't abridge free speech. Then someone comes along and libels someone. Is that free speech? I've heard it argued both ways. Now we have a disagreement about the "simple language" of the Constitution, or the new, post revolution improved constitution, or whatever we call the document.

Someone has to arbitrate when some folks say that the Constitution was violated and other folks say that it wasn't violated. Every time this particular type of thread comes up, no one can ever answer this simple question. Who will decide?

Here's also what I'm saying: Whatever system is set up will be violated. That's the nature of men. I pointed out that the same founding fathers who helped design our system immediately began to violate it as soon as they had to operate within it.

There is no great solution. All solutions - even the creation of a Constitution - are political. That's what politics is, the creation and implementation of public policy. Saying you want to take the politics out of it is the same as saying you want some form of government where the people don't decide. Because "the people" don't agree. They mostly disagree. Even about what the Constitution means.

When you say that it's obvious what the Constitution means is really saying that you just think that you're the one who should decide and all the idiots who disagree are idiots because they're just missing the obvious.

Also what I'm saying is that the beef you guys have is not with "politicians" or a corrupted system, it's with THE PEOPLE. You don't like what they choose. Neither do I, but I also know that any system set up to take the politics out of the system is totalitarian.

That's what I'm saying.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

Anarchist's answer:

a. The one with the largest gun. b. The quickest on the draw. c. The stealthiest one. d. All of the above.

Who would decide that the oath was violated?

 

[Stschil]

No, I'm not saying either of those things.

Also what I'm saying is that the beef you guys have is not with "politicians" or a corrupted system, it's with THE PEOPLE. You don't like what they choose. Neither do I, but I also know that any system set up to take the politics out of the system is totalitarian.

That's what I'm saying.

Well understood. Yes, my gripe IS with the People, Because it is the People that have allowed the deterioration. Revolution must at some point take place, but I don't believe that is has to be an armed one. Teaching and understanding our true history is key. The decline has been gradual, and so must be our rebirth, however at some point, the "have nots" will be forced to the realization that they have bitten the hand that feeds them and that no more is forthcoming. My hope is that there will be enough enlightened folks by that time to keeps things from deteriorating further.


I snipped it, not because I want to address a certain point, but because my phone has a small screen and edits are a PITA

 

[Expat]

It seems pretty simple to me. We need something like a Ministry of the Interior. He would make certain that everyone honors the Constitution and removes from office anyone that violates the Oath.