I just luv gubmint

[firecadet613]

Maybe it’s different between renters and owners though…

I bet it is, I'll have to find that time zone thread...

You assume escrow exists within rental agreements thereby awarding a tenant the credit for paying taxes.

It's very clear who was indoctrinated rather than educated in this thread.

Who cares who gets "credit" for paying them, the landlord pays them directly, the tenant indirectly (unless we're talking a commercial NNN lease).

Property taxes were no surprise to me, even on our current mortgage free property where I pay them direct. Our assessed value is still well below what we paid for the property (I fully expect it to ramp up to that amount over the next few years).

It is mind boggling to think how many folks are upset with Indiana property taxes (please, look at our surrounding states), we have it made here.

If you can't afford them, you likely need to take a look at your budget... but that's the typical American way....keeping up with the Jones and being up to your eyeballs in debt!

Hell, my 74 year old mother (who still has a mortgage) understands property taxes (and doesn't complain about them).... but she did like me and moved to a rural area and saw her property taxes cut by 2/3s...

 

[coltaceguy]

Last April my property tax went up a lot and I asked that the assessment be reviewed. As of last year we are both over 65. An occasional drainage district fee is not applicable this year. It really worked! My taxes went down! Six whole dollars.

To celebrate, I stopped by Dairy Queen and bought a Buster Bar, and just like that, my six bucks was gone.

Ain't that the truth? Went to get a Dilly bar the other day and the kid didn't even know what it was, had to talk to a manager to get my $3.99 Dilly bar, geeez.

 

[phylodog]

I bet it is, I'll have to find that time zone thread...


Who cares who gets "credit" for paying them, the landlord pays them directly, the tenant indirectly (unless we're talking a commercial NNN lease).

Property taxes were no surprise to me, even on our current mortgage free property where I pay them direct. Our assessed value is still well below what we paid for the property (I fully expect it to ramp up to that amount over the next few years).

It is mind boggling to think how many folks are upset with Indiana property taxes (please, look at our surrounding states), we have it made here.

If you can't afford them, you likely need to take a look at your budget... but that's the typical American way....keeping up with the Jones and being up to your eyeballs in debt!

Hell, my 74 year old mother (who still has a mortgage) understands property taxes (and doesn't complain about them).... but she did like me and moved to a rural area and saw her property taxes cut by 2/3s...

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess I'm not the only American who may not have been properly prepared for a 25% cost of living increase/devaluation of the dollar spiking the "value" of their home by tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in 3 years.

I'm happy for you. Guessing by your screen name I'd say you likely work(ed) in the public sector then ran a second business or worked a second job on the side unless your spouse made great money also. I know lots of guys who did that, myself included. Worked a second job as much as I was allowed during my six years in the Army then spent 20 years as a police officer working a second job the entire time. Got medically retired well ahead of my planned schedule and now I'm proper ****ed. Glad to hear it isn't ****ing everyone over but I'll not be leaping for joy to celebrate taxes of any sort any time soon when the government burning through them is as evil as any entity which has ever existed.

As far as who cares who gets credit, on any given day, no one. When someone attempts to place credit where it doesn't belong to bolster their argument it becomes an issue which needs to be (as was) pointed out.

I guess the right thing to do would be to abandon what I worked my entire life to attain and move in to an apartment in the suburbs. Then I can die the happy, peaceful life the government has arranged for me.

 

[Ziggidy]

Short term, no. They probably have a lease with the tenant which spells out the monthly rent.

Long term, they will try. If the market is in their favor, they will be able to. If it isn't, they will not.

Renters no more pay property tax than they pay for repairs.

Not sure what world you live in. You can make that claim about just about anything, it would be wrong but you can still claim it. For what it's worth, mortgages usually stay the same for years but my rent has never stayed the same. I have the same appliances and carpet for years. Why has my rent gone up? My current rent has gone up almost $300 per month in 3 years. Why? Because when taxes go up, when inflation sky rockets, when salaries go up our rent goes up.

Renters pay taxes and they pay for repairs.

 

[firecadet613]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess I'm not the only American who may not have been properly prepared for a 25% cost of living increase/devaluation of the dollar spiking the "value" of their home by tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in 3 years.

I'm happy for you. Guessing by your screen name I'd say you likely work(ed) in the public sector then ran a second business or worked a second job on the side unless your spouse made great money also. I know lots of guys who did that, myself included. Worked a second job as much as I was allowed during my six years in the Army then spent 20 years as a police officer working a second job the entire time. Got medically retired well ahead of my planned schedule and now I'm proper ****ed. Glad to hear it isn't ****ing everyone over but I'll not be leaping for joy to celebrate taxes of any sort any time soon when the government burning through them is as evil as any entity which has ever existed.

As far as who cares who gets credit, on any given day, no one. When someone attempts to place credit where it doesn't belong to bolster their argument it becomes an issue which needs to be (as was) pointed out.

I guess the right thing to do would be to abandon what I worked my entire life to attain and move in to an apartment in the suburbs. Then I can die the happy, peaceful life the government has arranged for me.

First off, thank you for your service!

And negative, I've never worked a day on the gov't payroll (have had this screen name for years, back when I was a "fire cadet" in high school). When I was hired on full time and would have taken a big pay cut from being a fast food store manager to being a fireman, no thanks.

I've done well, but we have made very good choices along the way.

Elections have consequences and many Americans are seeing more and more ramifications every day.

Since we lived well below our means (didn't run out and buy a new car or a new house when we got promotions at work), we're pretty well insulated against Bidenomics. Not saying I don't drive a new truck, I'm just wise beyond my years. Refi'd our last house to a 15yr note and stayed there long enough to pay it off, ahead of schedule (may have been the smartest thing we've done)!

My brother did the public safety / 2nd job gig for years and is about to retire at 54.... but he wasn't as wise with his money and isn't in as good a spot right now.

Bottom line is, the property tax pinch is caused by a spike in values (our rate actually went down while the assessed value increased), due to Bidenomics.

Many should have seen this coming and started to prepare, but obviously that isn't something most Americans do. Restaurants are still packed and hotels are still largely full (but I read an article a few days ago that credit card debt was at an all time high)...

Not sure what world you live in. You can make that claim about just about anything, it would be wrong but you can still claim it. For what it's worth, mortgages usually stay the same for years but my rent has never stayed the same. I have the same appliances and carpet for years. Why has my rent gone up? My current rent has gone up almost $300 per month in 3 years. Why? Because when taxes go up, when inflation sky rockets, when salaries go up our rent goes up.

Renters pay taxes and they pay for repairs.

@phylodog , @Ziggidy just proved my point! Landlords pass along costs to their tenants... they don't pay them out of the goodness of their hearts!

But, I can't ever recall my mortgage payment ever fluctuating over $100/mo (when they recalculate escrow due to property tax/insurance changes).

 

[phylodog]

But, I can't ever recall my mortgage payment ever fluctuating over $100/mo (when they recalculate escrow due to property tax/insurance changes).

I can. Before we had the 1% cap mine spiked over $400/month.

It's much more than an increase in values, it's a decrease in the value of the dollar that's driving it. For people well situated perhaps it's not that big of an issue (we may see in November assuming a legit election takes place) but for people who didn't have things work out as planned that leaves them with one option, being taxed out of their homes to feed a self serving government not subject to the same rules. I don't get to rack up unbridled debt and pass it along to the next schmuck.

I haven't gotten a raise in 5.5 years and won't see one for another 3.5. Like I said, I'm ****ed and it isn't due to fiscal irresponsibility. I was retired 25 years before I should have been, worked two jobs the entire time and haven't had credit card debt in over 20 years, never bought a new vehicle until I retired and maintained an 790+ credit score since I was 18. At the time the pension was ample and I had zero complaints. Now that it's effectively worth 25% less things aren't quite so comfortable. I played by the rules, I lived within my means, I worked my ass off.

I'm fully aware that elections have consequences. I can assure I did not vote for this ****.

 

[jamil]

I bet it is, I'll have to find that time zone thread...


Who cares who gets "credit" for paying them, the landlord pays them directly, the tenant indirectly (unless we're talking a commercial NNN lease).

Property taxes were no surprise to me, even on our current mortgage free property where I pay them direct. Our assessed value is still well below what we paid for the property (I fully expect it to ramp up to that amount over the next few years).

It is mind boggling to think how many folks are upset with Indiana property taxes (please, look at our surrounding states), we have it made here.

If you can't afford them, you likely need to take a look at your budget... but that's the typical American way....keeping up with the Jones and being up to your eyeballs in debt!

Hell, my 74 year old mother (who still has a mortgage) understands property taxes (and doesn't complain about them).... but she did like me and moved to a rural area and saw her property taxes cut by 2/3s...

You keep saying people don't understand property taxes. And that if they did, surely they'd be as orgasmic when paying them as you seem to be. Believing that property taxes aren't the best way to fund local government is not the same thing as not understanding property taxes. Also, believing that property taxes aren't the best way to fund local government is not the same thing as not being able to afford them.

But about not being able to afford them, not everyone is in the same financial situation as your mom. And not everyone in a bad financial situation are deserving of their situation.

 

[jamil]

First off, thank you for your service!

And negative, I've never worked a day on the gov't payroll (have had this screen name for years, back when I was a "fire cadet" in high school). When I was hired on full time and would have taken a big pay cut from being a fast food store manager to being a fireman, no thanks.

I've done well, but we have made very good choices along the way.

Elections have consequences and many Americans are seeing more and more ramifications every day.

Since we lived well below our means (didn't run out and buy a new car or a new house when we got promotions at work), we're pretty well insulated against Bidenomics. Not saying I don't drive a new truck, I'm just wise beyond my years. Refi'd our last house to a 15yr note and stayed there long enough to pay it off, ahead of schedule (may have been the smartest thing we've done)!

My brother did the public safety / 2nd job gig for years and is about to retire at 54.... but he wasn't as wise with his money and isn't in as good a spot right now.

Bottom line is, the property tax pinch is caused by a spike in values (our rate actually went down while the assessed value increased), due to Bidenomics.

Many should have seen this coming and started to prepare, but obviously that isn't something most Americans do. Restaurants are still packed and hotels are still largely full (but I read an article a few days ago that credit card debt was at an all time high)...


@phylodog , @Ziggidy just proved my point! Landlords pass along costs to their tenants... they don't pay them out of the goodness of their hearts!

But, I can't ever recall my mortgage payment ever fluctuating over $100/mo (when they recalculate escrow due to property tax/insurance changes).

Happiness is never having to put money in escrow. I get an insurance bill. I pay it. I get a tax bill I pay it. But I grit my teeth and curse at the cocksuckers who are cashing my check on the latter. Speaking of. Time to write check for the tax payment. I'm practicing my drawing skills to sketch a middle finger on my check.

 

[Ziggidy]

There are many reasons to be upset about taxes. One of my concerns is where does the money go? They cut school programs, the defund many police / fire departments, roads certainly are not improving.....where's the money? I think the elected create power avenues that allow them to manage our taxes which results in salary increases and such. Very little seems to reach the intended target.

 

[firecadet613]

You keep saying people don't understand property taxes. And that if they did, surely they'd be as orgasmic when paying them as you seem to be. Believing that property taxes aren't the best way to fund local government is not the same thing as not understanding property taxes. Also, believing that property taxes aren't the best way to fund local government is not the same thing as not being able to afford them.

But about not being able to afford them, not everyone is in the same financial situation as your mom. And not everyone in a bad financial situation are deserving of their situation.

When did I say that? I said people in this thread are wrong about who pays them (landlord or tenant). See a few posts up if you need that clarified but another INGOer.

Who's happy about paying them? Not me, but I'm not going to sit and complain about them. One, I'll ensure I can afford them and two, I'll ensure my legislatures know my thoughts.

Have you let your representatives know?

 

[firecadet613]

Happiness is never having to put money in escrow. I get an insurance bill. I pay it. I get a tax bill I pay it. But I grit my teeth and curse at the cocksuckers who are cashing my check on the latter. Speaking of. Time to write check for the tax payment. I'm practicing my drawing skills to sketch a middle finger on my check.

Amen to that, but I don't get upset at bills I legitimately owe. I paid my property taxes a few weeks ago when I had some free time, none of the retired guys in line seemed bent out of shape (they must not be INGO members). Don't like property taxes - work to get the system changed. Don't want to pay a ton - buy some land and have it in the classified forest program...

 

[firecadet613]

I can. Before we had the 1% cap mine spiked over $400/month.

It's much more than an increase in values, it's a decrease in the value of the dollar that's driving it. For people well situated perhaps it's not that big of an issue (we may see in November assuming a legit election takes place) but for people who didn't have things work out as planned that leaves them with one option, being taxed out of their homes to feed a self serving government not subject to the same rules. I don't get to rack up unbridled debt and pass it along to the next schmuck.

I haven't gotten a raise in 5.5 years and won't see one for another 3.5. Like I said, I'm ****ed and it isn't due to fiscal irresponsibility. I was retired 25 years before I should have been, worked two jobs the entire time and haven't had credit card debt in over 20 years, never bought a new vehicle until I retired and maintained an 790+ credit score since I was 18. At the time the pension was ample and I had zero complaints. Now that it's effectively worth 25% less things aren't quite so comfortable. I played by the rules, I lived within my means, I worked my ass off.

I'm fully aware that elections have consequences. I can assure I did not vote for this ****.

I hear you. Follow the system and then the rug gets pulled out from under you.

It sounds like Mitch Daniels had it pretty well figured out until the dollar took a hit. I was very well pleased with the 1% cap at our last place and am happy with it at our current place (even when the assessed value reflects what we paid for the property)...

 

[jamil]

When did I say that? I said people in this thread are wrong about who pays them (landlord or tenant). See a few posts up if you need that clarified but another INGOer.

Taxes are indeed payed by the landlord, and the landlord does try to pass that on, but as we discovered when reviewing economics 101, there are more factors that go into pricing than just expenses. Supply/demand, location, market conditions, etcetera.

Who's happy about paying them? Not me, but I'm not going to sit and complain about them. One, I'll ensure I can afford them and two, I'll ensure my legislatures know my thoughts.

Have you let your representatives know?

This sounds too much like one might sound when bent over, and OHHH! May I have another?

BTW, expressing that there are other ways local communities could raise funds other than levying taxes on one's property, is not for the purposes of complaining, but to put ideas out there that people should demand better. Expressing that property taxes should not be based on market value is not complaining, but rather pointing out the problems with that system.

 

[firecadet613]

Taxes are indeed payed by the landlord, and the landlord does try to pass that on, but as we discovered when reviewing economics 101, there are more factors tho into pricing than just expenses. Supply/demand, location, market conditions, etcetera.

So, I'll ask again. Are rents in your area up or down compared to previous years? In the Indy burbs (and I'm sure NWI) they are up...see @Ziggidy post above.

Now, who failed econ 101, @jamil ?

Pretty sure landlords are doing JUST fine...

FWIW, I could have rented out my last house for 2.5x what our final mortgage payment was... but decided I'd much rather just cash out...

 

[firecadet613]

This sounds too much like one might sound when bent over, and OHHH! May I have another?

BTW, expressing that there are other ways local communities could raise funds other than levying taxes on one's property, is not for the purposes of complaining, but to put ideas out there that people should demand better. Expressing that property taxes should not be based on market value is not complaining, but rather pointing out the problems with that system.

So you're saying you're complaining on INGO but haven't written your rep. Got it.

 

[phylodog]

So, I'll ask again. Are rents in your area up or down compared to previous years? In the Indy burbs (and I'm sure NWI) they are up...see @Ziggidy post above.

Now, who failed econ 101, @jamil ?

What isn't up compared to previous years? Aside from 85% of the country's standard of living?

 

[firecadet613]

What isn't up compared to previous years? Aside from 85% of the country's standard of living?

But he is making it sound like landlords will rent and loose money due to property tax increases, when in fact, they'll pass them along to their tenants.

Not to mention, most landlords likely have a rate locked in of lower than the 7% (or whatever current mortgage rates are at).

 

[jamil]

Amen to that, but I don't get upset at bills I legitimately owe. I paid my property taxes a few weeks ago when I had some free time, none of the retired guys in line seemed bent out of shape (they must not be INGO members). Don't like property taxes - work to get the system changed. Don't want to pay a ton - buy some land and have it in the classified forest program...

It's silly to argue on INGO and then blame INGO for having members who disagree with you. Don't blame it on INGO. It's a representation of opinions on many different topics from gun owners.

BTW, if you saw me in line paying my property tax, you wouldn't hear me complaining. I just wait in line if there is one, when I'm up, do my business, and then leave. I'm polite and cordial to the clerks. They're just doing their jobs. Even the county clerk and treasurer are doing their jobs. But, I'm sure they might raise an eyebrow if they notice the middle finger drawn on the check.

 

[jamil]

So, I'll ask again. Are rents in your area up or down compared to previous years? In the Indy burbs (and I'm sure NWI) they are up...see @Ziggidy post above.

Now, who failed econ 101, @jamil ?

Pretty sure landlords are doing JUST fine...

FWIW, I could have rented out my last house for 2.5x what our final mortgage payment was... but decided I'd much rather just cash out...

This is definitely a landlords' market. No one said landlords aren't doing fine. I only said that there are other factors that go into pricing besides just expenses. Sometimes when expenses go up, you can't always pass it on to the tenants. If you haven't figured that out yet, maybe you haven't lived through lean years. Doesn't mean you're losing money. It just means you're not making as much profit as you could have if conditions were better.

So let's talk again when the market turns. I aced my econ classes BTW.

 

[Ingomike]

You keep saying people don't understand property taxes. And that if they did, surely they'd be as orgasmic when paying them as you seem to be. Believing that property taxes aren't the best way to fund local government is not the same thing as not understanding property taxes. Also, believing that property taxes aren't the best way to fund local government is not the same thing as not being able to afford them.

But about not being able to afford them, not everyone is in the same financial situation as your mom. And not everyone in a bad financial situation are deserving of their situation.

We have seen in this very thread that folks have no idea what property taxes pay for. That when asked they have nothing but vague responses to the questions of who and how those things should be paid for. I have said multiple times that some things should not be part of property taxes, and even offered reasoning as to why our predecessors chose the property tax for them but there has been no discussion as to those issues.

I have little option but to believe that folks are just b******g and not really in search of solutions to what they are so aggrieved about.