I can't hit my target--where should my left pinky toe point??!!

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  • Hemingway

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    There have been a few threads lately about helping shooters hit their targets.

    Some good science fiction stuff, too. About how feet and/or unicorns are somehow connected to your trigger finger.

    For your viewing pleasure, I'm posting some of the contemporary theories on how to diagnose your shooting problem in convenient visual form.

    (Later, I'll explain how it's all horse-puckey that's regurgitated from one mediocre firearms instructor to the next. And explains why many students just stay in one frustrated plateau for their entire life.)




    Target004.jpg






    This one has my personal favorite advice ever: When shooting low horizontal left, apply more pressure with YOUR PINKY! Your pinky????

    That's 100% fantastic, stuffed with wonderful, and smothered in awesome right there.


    target002.jpg










    Target001.jpg







    Let me break it down for you:

    1. Mastering sight alignment:

    ----Go to your kitchen, grab three cups and put them in a straight line on your countertop. Put equal space between them. Bam. You've mastered sight alignment. You could spend the rest of your life trying to get those cups more perfectly aligned but I think they're probably good enough the first time.


    2. Mastering trigger pull:

    ----With your unloaded gun, use the above technique you learned with the cups and apply them to the 2 things on the rear and the 1 thing on the front of your slide. They should all be aligned. Put the 1 thing (we'll just call it, oh, "Front Sight" for the sake of this thread) in the front aimed in on a small target, say a doorknob, and pull the trigger to the rear. Did the front sight stay on the doorknob through the whole pull and is it still on the doorknob?

    Yes? Great, you've mastered trigger pull.


    3. EVERYTHING ELSE IS COMPLETELY UNRELATED TO WHERE YOUR ROUNDS ARE GOING!!!!
    (Example, did your grip matter when you aimed at the doorknob? What about your stance when lining up the cups? Did you find you could line up the cups better if you got in some specific foot position?)


    4. You aren't hitting where you're aiming because once you move past Step 2 and put REAL bullets, that create REAL noise and REAL movement in your gun, you start flinching due to PSYCHOLOGICAL REASONS ONLY!!!!!

    5. Once you recognize it's a psychological problem, you can dismiss the rabbit trails of stance, drooping head, pinky squeezing, thumbing, unicorns, candy corn, corn pops, cornucopias, cornhole games, whatever, and start focusing on the real AND ONLY problem: RECOIL ANTICIPATION.







    For those of you that have struggled through the conventional nonsense that passes for firearms training, and come out the other side realizing that you wasted time on a 60/40 grip instead of recoil anticipation, and now you're shooting better than ever because you've actually identified the problem, I salute you. :patriot: :yesway: Spread the good word.


    To the rest of you, get to work!:draw:
     
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    VERT

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    Well I have been attending classes, reading the books, dry firing and watching a lot of video lately. My shooting just keeps getting worse. Maybe this is the reason? :(

    Actually I think it is because of carple tunnel. My hand always aches and my grip is vetting weak.
     

    Sylvain

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    "That's not my technic, the sights are off!" :D
    I always stick to that.
    I could be also the bad ammo that doesn't shoot straight or because I have the sun in my eye.
     

    rotortech

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    The best one that I saw recently posted on INGO was the guy who will never buy another pistol without adjustable sights for windage. He said the sights are never correct and he always shoots to the left and has to have the sights adjusted. Hmmm . . . .
     

    Hemingway

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    Well I have been attending classes, reading the books, dry firing and watching a lot of video lately. My shooting just keeps getting worse. Maybe this is the reason? :(

    Actually I think it is because of carple tunnel. My hand always aches and my grip is vetting weak.

    Not sure what training you've gone to or what videos you've watched but bad instruction very rarely produces good results.

    If you are confused about what to practice, I would suggest you start with James Yeager's Shooting Missology DVD.

    Eliminating the practice of bad techniques is just as important as practicing good techniques.

    Stay with it. It isn't rocket science--after all, look at the people in this hobby :)
     

    Paul Gomez

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    You, Sir, have obviously never faced down a pissed off unicorn before. They are no laughing matter!

    [I feel your pain. ;)]
     

    Hemingway

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    The best one that I saw recently posted on INGO was the guy who will never buy another pistol without adjustable sights for windage. He said the sights are never correct and he always shoots to the left and has to have the sights adjusted. Hmmm . . . .

    I actually had a lady tell me this on Tuesday. Springfield XD. "I am aiming dead center mass." But she was way off to start with. After a few mags, I let her aim in while I pulled the trigger. Bingo. Perfectly center every time. That exercise always ends that excuse.



    You, Sir, have obviously never faced down a pissed off unicorn before. They are no laughing matter!

    [I feel your pain. ;)]


    I've heard nothing but great things about you, Paul. I hope to get the chance to train with you sometime.

    And yes, unicorns are misunderstood and underestimated. Zombies get all the attention and they don't even have a horn :dunno::dunno:
     

    Shay

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    The best one that I saw recently posted on INGO was the guy who will never buy another pistol without adjustable sights for windage. He said the sights are never correct and he always shoots to the left and has to have the sights adjusted. Hmmm . . . .

    I used to shoot students' guns for demonstrations in classes. The ones with adjustable sights usually shot high and right. People would rather adjust their sights than cure their marksmanship issues.
    :n00b:
     

    the1kidd03

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    I used to shoot students' guns for demonstrations in classes. The ones with adjustable sights usually shot high and right. People would rather adjust their sights than cure their marksmanship issues.
    :n00b:
    That's an excellent demonstration to drive a point home :yesway:

    Too often I've come across those who think "they're doing it right" and swear they need to fix the sights
     

    Fishersjohn48

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    Once again reiterating the saying, "You suck, it's not the gun"

    Caveat: There are a few of us here who own M&P Pro's that shoot consistently low even off of a rest. ( a documented problem even though S&W isn't replacing the sights) So in this case, the sights suck, it still isn't the gun......
     

    Coach

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    If I can dry fire the gun once while holding the sights in alignment on a doorknob I have mastered trigger control. Really?

    All inaccurate shots after the door knob test are due to recoil anticipation. Really?
     

    Que

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    Help me out guys, I'm certainly willing to learn. If I cannot hit the target and then adjust my sights, allowing me to hit the bulls eye seven out of eight times, does it matter that you can't pick up my gun and do the same thing? After all, what are adjustable sights for?
     

    Shay

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    Help me out guys, I'm certainly willing to learn. If I cannot hit the target and then adjust my sights, allowing me to hit the bulls eye seven out of eight times, does it matter that you can't pick up my gun and do the same thing? After all, what are adjustable sights for?

    You couldn't pick up ANY other gun and shoot it well.
     

    Que

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    You couldn't pick up ANY other gun and shoot it well.

    But, why would I need to shoot another gun that well? Besides, in your example of shooting a student's gun, who is the standard to determine if the sights are off? Could if be that your shooting is not that great with that particular gun?

    I've shot guns belonging to other guys and have had to make windage adjustments, but does that mean their sights are off? It seems like this would be similar to me putting on someone's glasses and then tell them they can't possibly see in them because they are blurry for me. Again, I'm just trying to learn.
     

    Mike.B

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    You, Sir, have obviously never faced down a pissed off unicorn before. They are no laughing matter!

    :): I am making that into a bumper sticker, no I am not joking.

    Que, I agree with your line of thinking. While I can normally pick up someone else's rifle and get it in the ballpark why would I need to. Another thing to keep in mind is how you shoot. I was taught to keep the stock just under my cheek bone allowing me a spot of reference. This meant I could run and grab my rifle and have it in exact position for my sights instantly. Just another viewpoint to consider.
     

    Shay

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    But, why would I need to shoot another gun that well? Besides, in your example of shooting a student's gun, who is the standard to determine if the sights are off? Could if be that your shooting is not that great with that particular gun?

    I've shot guns belonging to other guys and have had to make windage adjustments, but does that mean their sights are off? It seems like this would be similar to me putting on someone's glasses and then tell them they can't possibly see in them because they are blurry for me. Again, I'm just trying to learn.

    I am the standard! :):

    You can fire a pistol from a bench rest or a vice and determine where the sights are aligned. All guns will have small variances between point of aim and point of impact. With modern guns it's usually a very small difference. When people magnify that distance with adjustable sights it's normally because they have trigger control issues that they hope to disguise.

    Alright. This is where I've got to drop this. I've got a Flashlight Combatives class to teach today.
     

    Grelber

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    With my two glocks I tend to have two adjust my sights or else I shoot high right when relaxed, mostly high, groups go left when shooting fast. This is getting better with more practice.

    With my 4 1911's (I don't try to justify 4, they just followed me home) They just seem to shoot where they are supposed to.

    Last time I shot a steel challenge with one of my glocks I was consistently low on the first stage so I aimed up and started hitting after someone told me all shots were going low. Once I had my confidence back I started hitting at point of aim and that is the way it was for the next five stages. In retrospect it seems like I had a loose grip on stage one, but I wouldn't swear that this was the issue.

    Shooting a friends revolver last weekend, myself and two other shooters all seemed to have same point of aim with it firing single action slow.

    Don't know if any of the above makes sense or is typical for novice shooters. But for what oit is worth....
     

    Hemingway

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    If I can dry fire the gun once while holding the sights in alignment on a doorknob I have mastered trigger control. Really?

    All inaccurate shots after the door knob test are due to recoil anticipation. Really?

    Assuming you haven't messed up the sight alignment, then....



    Yes.

    Yes.
     

    downrange72

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    Once again reiterating the saying, "You suck, it's not the gun"

    Caveat: There are a few of us here who own M&P Pro's that shoot consistently low even off of a rest. ( a documented problem even though S&W isn't replacing the sights) So in this case, the sights suck, it still isn't the gun......

    :yesway: Only pistol i've needed to put adjustable sights on. Still love it. I thought about it on my .40 pro, but it was dead on out of the box.

    I have to admit, when I'm missing, it is not the gun, it is me hammering the danged trigger
     
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