How far back does screwing Vets go in the US? All the way to the beginning.

[BehindBlueI's]

World of WarriorShaft - Terrible Memory Lane - The Daily Show - Video Clip | Comedy Central

My own experiences go back to the 90's, by family's to the 40's, but unfortunately the nation's experiences go back even further.

On a side note, its interesting to see military tanks breaking up a protest of WWI vets. I guess the crys about MRAPS heralding a police state aren't grounded in history, either. Full fledged tanks apparently didn't raise an eyebrow back in the day.

 

[RockofStrength]

World of WarriorShaft - Terrible Memory Lane - The Daily Show - Video Clip | Comedy Central

My own experiences go back to the 90's, by family's to the 40's, but unfortunately the nation's experiences go back even further.

On a side note, its interesting to see military tanks breaking up a protest of WWI vets. I guess the crys about MRAPS heralding a police state aren't grounded in history, either. Full fledged tanks apparently didn't raise an eyebrow back in the day.

Other things accepted back in the day:

1935 National Firearms Act
Social Security
The Confiscation of Gold
The New Deal
The Founding of the Federal Reserve
The KKK (varies depending upon region)
The Red Scare and McCarthyism

 

[Henry]

Didn't watch the clip...no interest in the daily show.

Nonetheless, the state views soldiers as little more than cannon fodder.

 

[ModernGunner]

...by f*****g them over, once they give their guns back...

So Jon, you're implication is we must NOT give our guns back?

Hey, it's good to know Stewart is a Second Amendment supporter!

 

[Henry]

Stewart is a jackass

 

[Hotdoger]

Stewart is a waste of good air.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You can dismiss him all you want, but the point he makes is rock solid. Veterans have been, and continue to be, screwed over and he's one of the most vocal tv personalities about the issue.

 

[Denny347]

Jon is dead on. BTW, what political comedians do the Jon haters rather watch?

 

[Henry]

I don't watch political comedians. I never recognized it as a requirement.

He is right on this point based on what I've read...didn't watch the video.

It doesn't change my opinion that he is a jackass.

Regardless, that's not the point of the thread.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

What in the world makes ANY of you think that veterans of any nationality get good treatment once the shooting stops? If you've got any illusions that other countries' vets have it better than ours, read Rudyard Kipling's "Tommy." The problems our vets are having can be squarely laid on "single payer healthcare" - the same sort of system that the Federal Government is trying to force the rest of you into having. Where GOOD doctors meet the patients, VA healthcare is as good as any in the nation, by all accounts, but the VA system doesn't penalize or get rid of BAD doctors and medical personnel, and it rewards administrators for aspects of healthcare having nothing to do with actual patient care. THAT's what is wrong with the system.

 

[Denny347]

VICE just aired a story "No Man Left Behind" about returning vets with PTSD that are self medicating with drugs because they are not getting any help from the VA. So many are killing themselves. It was very sad to watch.

 

[Denny347]

What in the world makes ANY of you think that veterans of any nationality get good treatment once the shooting stops? If you've got any illusions that other countries' vets have it better than ours, read Rudyard Kipling's "Tommy." The problems our vets are having can be squarely laid on "single payer healthcare" - the same sort of system that the Federal Government is trying to force the rest of you into having. Where GOOD doctors meet the patients, VA healthcare is as good as any in the nation, by all accounts, but the VA system doesn't penalize or get rid of BAD doctors and medical personnel, and it rewards administrators for aspects of healthcare having nothing to do with actual patient care. THAT's what is wrong with the system.

Regardless of the WHY, it sucks and they should do better. Let them choose their provider.

 

[Denny347]

I don't watch political comedians. I never recognized it as a requirement.

Requirement? No. But it is nice to laugh about some of this BS otherwise you risk becoming a miserable old man screaming about the end of civilization from watching too many talking heads on TV. I've see it happen myself. Lighten up Francis.

 

[Henry]

Requirement? No. But it is nice to laugh about some of this BS otherwise you risk becoming a miserable old man screaming about the end of civilization from watching too many talking heads on TV. I've see it happen myself. Lighten up Francis.

I don't watch talking heads either.

Glad you were able to get control of yourself. :-)

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Regardless of the WHY, it sucks and they should do better. Let them choose their provider.

"THEY" should do a lot of things, but currently, instead of VA transitioning to a public/private system, WE'RE all transitioning to a government-run healthcare system which will have all of the disadvantages of the current VA system, and no backup civilian care to fall back on. We may find ourselves going to MEXICO for medical procedures in the future. So while I feel badly for current veterans dependent upon the VA system (being a veteran myself), and believe they deserve better of their country, they're already getting better healthcare than many of their counterparts in Europe and certainly better healthcare than their counterparts in the rest of the world. In the meantime, the rest of our population is getting ready to get the same sort of crappy service that characterizes the VA right now.

 

[Bennettjh]

Requirement? No. But it is nice to laugh about some of this BS otherwise you risk becoming a miserable old man screaming about the end of civilization from watching too many talking heads on TV. I've see it happen myself. Lighten up Francis.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

VICE just aired a story "No Man Left Behind" about returning vets with PTSD that are self medicating with drugs because they are not getting any help from the VA. So many are killing themselves. It was very sad to watch.

Speaking as a veteran, I have to wonder why it is that our troops are having so much trouble with PTSD - especially why we're having so many suicides. Is it because of the constant combat? My father's generation produced infantrymen who fought continuously for years after Normandy, came home after the war and went back to their lives. Many of them lived with their memories of war and did not talk about them to their families (one way of "de-stressing" a situation). Yes, there were cases of "combat fatigue", but not nearly as many, in comparison, as what we appear to be suffering today. Is it multiple deployments? Seems to me that the majority of PTSD is occurring in enlisted and junior NCOs (a conjecture I've taken from training films and documentaries). So is our younger generation of soldiers lacking something in their makeup that makes them more vulnerable to the psychoses that make suicide seem inviting, or is it easy access to ameliorative drugs which, once taken, cumulatively lead further down the road into suicidal depression? I really don't know, but what I think I DO know is that my grandfather's generation dealt with the horrors of mass deaths and destruction in WWI without collapsing into suicidal depression; my father's generation managed to get through WWII largely intact; most Vietnam veterans went on to live productive lives, although there were more widely publicized instances of veterans being unable to cope with their experiences. And now, although we have admittedly been at war for over 10 years, it hasn't been continuous for our troops; it hasn't been any more traumatizing in terms of casualties taken than other conflicts, yet we have a wave of suicides of troops (although the rate of suicides among our troops isn't higher than the civilian average). The only place I've heard of where waves of suicides would take place is in the French Foreign Legion, and that was attributed to troops not getting enough combat.

Now I'm not drawing any particular conclusions nor making any inferences about this phenomenon, but it does seem strange to me that it should be happening and I can't help but wonder what are the particular circumstances which are causing it to occur.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

What in the world makes ANY of you think that veterans of any nationality get good treatment once the shooting stops? If you've got any illusions that other countries' vets have it better than ours, read Rudyard Kipling's "Tommy." The problems our vets are having can be squarely laid on "single payer healthcare" - the same sort of system that the Federal Government is trying to force the rest of you into having. Where GOOD doctors meet the patients, VA healthcare is as good as any in the nation, by all accounts, but the VA system doesn't penalize or get rid of BAD doctors and medical personnel, and it rewards administrators for aspects of healthcare having nothing to do with actual patient care. THAT's what is wrong with the system.

1) "Because other countries do it" is meaningless and has no place in our discussion.
2) Its about a lot more than healthcare, and in no way can be squarely laid on "single payer healthcare". While healthcare is one aspect of the screwing that's getting all the press at the moment, ridiculously long waits for disability claims, inefficient and lost paperwork, reneging on promised benefits, its a lot more than just the VA hospitals.
3) You can be the best doctor in the world, if your patient load is too high, you won't be the best doctor in the world any more.

Whatever, just let the politicians slap a flag pin on their lapel and call it a day for patriotism. Just stop lying to people that we honor our veterans, when that's obviously not the case. Just once have the guts to get on television or in front of Congress and admit its just propaganda BS so we can say "hoorah for our side" for political points and keep the youngsters enlisting so we can break them and forget about them, too. Even better, let's blame them for being broken. Suffering from Agent Orange related issues, you were a liar trying to scam the system for decades until most of them died off. Gulf War Syndrome? Liars. PTSD? Weaklings. Your WWII forefathers didn't have PTSD. Except, you know, they totally did, we just didn't recognize and treat it as such. Oh, and of course we didn't deploy the same guys 4 times in 6 years, but again, whatever.

http://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-Lunatics-Great-Peter-Barham/dp/0300125119 if anyone is interested in WW1 vets who didn't have PTSD because it wasn't a thing yet.

 

[Hotdoger]

"VICE just aired a story "No Man Left Behind" about returning vets with PTSD that are self medicating with drugs because they are not getting any help from the VA. So many are killing themselves. It was very sad to watch. "

I'm going to a funeral Tuesday in Ok. for a kid that suffered from PTSD and was involved in a shooting with police. It not only effects them but others that are caught up in their issues.

 

[Denny347]

Speaking as a veteran, I have to wonder why it is that our troops are having so much trouble with PTSD - especially why we're having so many suicides. Is it because of the constant combat? My father's generation produced infantrymen who fought continuously for years after Normandy, came home after the war and went back to their lives. Many of them lived with their memories of war and did not talk about them to their families (one way of "de-stressing" a situation). Yes, there were cases of "combat fatigue", but not nearly as many, in comparison, as what we appear to be suffering today. Is it multiple deployments? Seems to me that the majority of PTSD is occurring in enlisted and junior NCOs (a conjecture I've taken from training films and documentaries). So is our younger generation of soldiers lacking something in their makeup that makes them more vulnerable to the psychoses that make suicide seem inviting, or is it easy access to ameliorative drugs which, once taken, cumulatively lead further down the road into suicidal depression? I really don't know, but what I think I DO know is that my grandfather's generation dealt with the horrors of mass deaths and destruction in WWI without collapsing into suicidal depression; my father's generation managed to get through WWII largely intact; most Vietnam veterans went on to live productive lives, although there were more widely publicized instances of veterans being unable to cope with their experiences. And now, although we have admittedly been at war for over 10 years, it hasn't been continuous for our troops; it hasn't been any more traumatizing in terms of casualties taken than other conflicts, yet we have a wave of suicides of troops (although the rate of suicides among our troops isn't higher than the civilian average). The only place I've heard of where waves of suicides would take place is in the French Foreign Legion, and that was attributed to troops not getting enough combat.

Now I'm not drawing any particular conclusions nor making any inferences about this phenomenon, but it does seem strange to me that it should be happening and I can't help but wonder what are the particular circumstances which are causing it to occur.

Good questions, I do not know the answers but it certainly is sad. I hate that it is happening.