Horrible experience with a dealer at the 1500

[SWAMPMASTER]

I found that guy's table, pulled off my pants, jumped up on the table and rolled all over his guns and gun accessories. He had a heart attack and died on the spot.

justice served

 

[MoparMan]

Do you really want pics?

 

[SWAMPMASTER]

Do you really want pics?

Ok not really but that is the first time I got the chance to use it

 

[printcraft]

While I agree...for the most part...you have to admit...telling them to put the eff-ing gun down and get away from his eff-ing table was a bit over the top........

I just had a vision of that guy drawing down on the OP and telling him to
put the gun down and back away.


I usually don't bother with the 'ones behind the glass' usually out of my price range anyhow.
I've never had a salesman give me anything other than a smile and a sales pitch on the open table ones. Typically I'll 2 finger flip them to look them over or pickup to see how it feels in my hand. I don't rack slides or dropping hammers however or finger up the metal.

 

[jbhummer2]

I always ask if I want to look at a gun at a show. I understand it is hard watching the guns while you are trying to sell somthing to someone else but this isnt the way to handle it by telling someone to get away. If he is that against it there should be a sign saying to ask first.

 

[Chefcook]

Sir just drop the Chalupa....

 

[Dashman010]

Their is a thing as gunshow etiquette that not obviously everyone believes in.It IS proper to ask to handle guns/knives/wares on a table esp if you DON'T know the dealer and the policy of handling expensive guns such as a brand new in-the-box Belgium made Browning Hi-power! I saw what happened and I know the dealer.Their are rules at shows and some aren't written but some decorum on the part of the attendees prior to picking up a gun/knife/etc from a table is pure courtesy and we are expected to act like gentlemen and ladies esp while espousing our freedoms to rightful assembly at a second amendment function.While a gunshow is a place to have fun and look at items...it isn't a free-for-all where we can take liberties on item(s) that don't belong to YOU until you buy them.They are the sole property of that vendor.You guys can b*tch all you want but until you make your living from the other side of the table and have to deal with some dumbo screwing up stuff you have your hard earned $ into,you shouldn't criticize what the dealer(s) go thru to sell.

Since this thread directly implicates me, I'll respond with a full account of the actual events....

As MeltonLaw previously said, we started at the back-wall of the show as we usually do. The show had been going for probably 45 minutes by the time we got to the dealer in questions table. Admittedly, I wasn't in the market for a gun right then, having just purchased a new Kimber CDP, but there are a few guns that I'm always on the lookout for in prime condition -- one of them is a Browning HP. Seeing one on the table, not covered by glass, tethered to the table, or otherwise, I pickup up the weapon from the table, probably about 6 inches high, over the table, over the place where it had been laying. Being that there was no indication that it was new (box, tag, etc.) I was examining the firearm for condition. After briefly examining the first side, I rotated the gun over the table, 6 inches high, and examined the other side. Noting the excellent (apparently new) condition the gun was in, I called MeltonLaw over for a look. At this time I pressed the magazine release, took the magazine about 1/2 way out of the gun, saw that it was, in fact, a factory mag (the reason I was looking), and returned the magazine to the locked position. At no time did I take the gun from over the table, check the sights, rack the slide, pull the trigger, cock the hammer, or otherwise. Then the fun started.... Here's a pretty close version of what happened:

Dealer (with a particular angry looking expression): Did you ask if you could press the magazine release?
Me (somewhat bewildered as to why he is looking at me as if I was 12): No.
Dealer: Well then, It appears that you have no respect for me because you are looking at my guns without permission. Therefore, I am not going to show any respect for you. Now put the "eff-ing gun" down.

Now, from the post above, the poster noted that there was some gun-show etiquette that needed to be followed. My response to the poster is, if anyone in this situation needs etiquette training, it is clearly the dealer. At no time was I anything but respectful of the table, firearm, or otherwise. I've been to probably 20-30 gun shows, and I've NEVER been treated in any manner CLOSE to how this dealer treated me. I am fully respectful of signs that ask for permission to hold weapons or when a weapon is in a case. But when a gun is on the table, the dealer is 5 feet away, and I am being respectful of the weapon and not being dumb, the conduct of the dealer in this situation was just ludicrous.

I've been to the past several Indy1500's, and I have to say that I've never had anybody look twice at me for simply examining the condition of a firearm. While I realize that some people have a policy of not picking up a firearm at all without asking, that is not the general etiquette that has been put forth here, at least with regard to the 1500, unless some other signage or casing is done.

Also, for the record, I'm 25 years old. I highly HIGHLY doubt the conduct of the dealer would have been the same if I had been 40. Perhaps he thought 25 years olds were punks or simply not in the market, but I'm not sure that 25 year old lawyers-to-be who enjoy guns are the group that you want to alienate by being extremely disrespectful.

 

[Indy317]

Their is a thing as gunshow etiquette that not obviously everyone believes in.It IS proper to ask to handle guns/knives/wares on a table esp if you DON'T know the dealer and the policy of handling expensive guns such as a brand new in-the-box Belgium made Browning Hi-power! I saw what happened and I know the dealer.Their are rules at shows and some aren't written but some decorum on the part of the attendees prior to picking up a gun/knife/etc from a table is pure courtesy and we are expected to act like gentlemen and ladies esp while espousing our freedoms to rightful assembly at a second amendment function.While a gunshow is a place to have fun and look at items...it isn't a free-for-all where we can take liberties on item(s) that don't belong to YOU until you buy them.They are the sole property of that vendor.

I think this depends on the dealer, the inventory they have displayed, and how the dealer is acting. There seems to be at least one or two dealers who may have a handful of guns on display. They are selling collectible pieces that are usually very costly. Those who want to maintain the guns and their condition use cases. Others may just watch over them like a hawk. Those who don't use cases, but watch over them like a hawk are the ones I would ask. It is clear that such dealers have a vested interest in their goods. However, the more guns a dealer lays out, the more that dealer is up walking around, turning his back on his items, etc. , I would feel that such a dealer is more understanding that people are going to pick up weapons and look them over. Some may actually dry fire the gun or check the magazine. A dealer as the one described in this situation needs to have his guns cabled and/or cased. Guns shows are nothing but open air markets, so the handling of the goods is going to happen.

I would imagine the attempts at humor if played out would definitely get you a lifetime ban from the Indy1500.

Lifetime ban from a flea market...oh no!!!!

 

[drgnrobo]

I like to flip tags over so everyone can see the the prices I generally dont touch something without permission but at a gun show where everything is strewn on a table .If the table is a clusterfarg of guns piled up in no particular order, Like digging for buried treasure or a bargain box ,its like they want you to touch & fondle their wares Most of the vendors have security string & you dont want to find out what happens when you pull on the security string

 

[Archbishop]

Perhaps I'm a bit of a prude, but I think, the use of such language with no provocation Shows an utter lack of class. when Such character are revealed, I take my business elsewhere

 

[paddling_man]

I am 40. Not having lived all of my life in Indiana, I've only been to around ten 1500s. I'm not sure why it happens, but there seems to be a higher percentage of window-lickers on both sides of the table at the 1500 shows than at the shows I've been to in other areas. Everything from the loud-mouthed, fat, unwashed fellow to the gangsta-punks - no inferred race with the last comment. Most of the gangsta-punks are white that I've seen.

I've not worked the Busse booth at the 1500 but I've been around it enough at the 1500 to see some of the ignorant folks - folks who carp about how their $10 pakistani special is a smooth operator. These are the same ones who are going to pick up a $500 blade and show us their latest Jackie-Chan moves. If you bleed on it, you bought it. You can often recognize idiots by the band-aids.

I believe the dealers get stressed due to the above and the rest of us suffer for it. The dealers suffer also... they lose sales due to hacking off customers.

Should Dashman have asked? Unclear, though I probably still would have in his shoes. His account sounds pretty reasonable though and not disrespectful.

Did the dealer stereotype you as a young guy, with no intention or mean$ to pay for it and only a liability to his sales and property? Possibly. Youth is a good thing but, as with every stage of life, you may need to account for its shortcomings with some extra effort to show you're serious.

Bottom line: A good percentage of 1500 patrons can wear a dealer to the limit. If you are a dealer, *know* your limit and mentally protect yourself by shutting the table down or putting into place signs/securitycable/glass to limit how much folks can frustrate you. If you can't do that, you probably should find a new weekend pursuit.

I usually ask. But the treatment and reaction by him were out of line. A lot of people have the signs. If I don't ask I WILL make eye contact before I pick it up to cue them in on I'm NOT trying to snake a gun.

How were his prices???? j/k

^^ This ^^

 

[Indecision]

Their is a thing as gunshow etiquette that not obviously everyone believes in.It IS proper to ask to handle guns/knives/wares on a table esp if you DON'T know the dealer and the policy of handling expensive guns such as a brand new in-the-box Belgium made Browning Hi-power! I saw what happened and I know the dealer.Their are rules at shows and some aren't written but some decorum on the part of the attendees prior to picking up a gun/knife/etc from a table is pure courtesy and we are expected to act like gentlemen and ladies esp while espousing our freedoms to rightful assembly at a second amendment function.While a gunshow is a place to have fun and look at items...it isn't a free-for-all where we can take liberties on item(s) that don't belong to YOU until you buy them.They are the sole property of that vendor.You guys can b*tch all you want but until you make your living from the other side of the table and have to deal with some dumbo screwing up stuff you have your hard earned $ into,you shouldn't criticize what the dealer(s) go thru to sell.Put yourself into their shoes instead of carping on here.

I disagree with this. Pretty much everything else that people have said is right. If he doesn't want people to touch without asking while at a flea market. He needs a sign that says so. Not to mention, even IF there was a sign and he did it, he could've been polite and asked them to only handle the guns with assistance instead of acting like such a tool. The dealer is clearly not the right person to be in customer service, as that requires something called tact and he clearly has none of that.

 

[haldir]

I personally never pick up any items from the tables without seeking permission. The most I will do without express permission is to roll a long arm from its side up to see maker's name. I do not take it off the table. Usually the dealer will then say go ahead and pick it up if you want. I know if I was a dealer I would be nervous wreck. People just grabbing guns, snap firing away, racking them over and over. Then his buddy going to the other end of the table and doing the same...

 

[MeltonLaw]

Kokomo Dave you say you saw what happened and you agree with his approach? It is shocking that anyone would condone this. Dashman010 and I are not young punks nor are we people who "take liberties" with others merchandise. Instead we are careful consumers who take the opportunities provided to us in order to examine any potentially large purchases. The particular Browning Hi-Power in question was not a collectors worthy item. As I said in the OP it had a fair price on it. It not being a collectors item and not being cased leads me to believe that it is on display to be sold. When selling something at an open-air market setting it is expected that the goods will be handled.
I also find it interesting that you espouse a set decorum while we exercise certain rights such as assembly (1st amendment) and firearms (2nd) but then tell us to not speak up when we feel that we were wronged. Which if you sit and think for any amount of time is telling us to not exercise another part of the 1st amendment.
Finally you say put yourself in the shoes of the dealers? Ok I have merchandise to sell to a public that has paid to see that merchandise, twice if you count the parking fee. Oh look someone is perusing my goods. Oh look they are handling a firearm and not pointing it at me, dry firing, or dropping it. Great now I'll have to go tell them to f__king put the gun down and leave the f__king table because I really want to sell my merchandise at this show. Give me a break this guy was wrong in the way that he handled it and your comments not only highlight but show that you are eagerly willing to disparage the "victim" of the incident when it is obvious who the real transgressor was.

 

[floatch]

I think it's rude no matter how you slice it, and as a businessman, he needs to realize that it's no way to make money! Duh!

 

[dburkhead]

I just worked a gunshow with a friend of mine in Fort Wayne. This is about the 4th one I worked with him. I must say that 98% of the finger f&#$#^er's have NO INTENTION at all of buying and it does wear on you. The constant FF'ers do test your patience. Attacking two people with no warning is ridiculous though.

You know, I'll usually look closely at (which usually means handle) about 50 or so guns before I find the one I want to buy (on average). As a dealer, you don't know if I'm on #'s 1 through 49 (that 98%) or on magic #50. And, yes, I've worked a friend's booth myself. The tire-kickers are part of the business.

 

[WileECoyotee]

I think if the guy would have just asked if the OP needed some help , this would have been a rather short thread that may have ended in a sale , JMHO .

 

[Seancass]

I don't think i have ever asked to pick up a gun if it's not under glass. It never really occured to me that someone would get upset at this. It's a gun show, some of the people there are actually shopping for guns. Am i going to buy every gun i pick up? Obviously not. Some i just want to feel because i've never held that gun before. I do always ask before i dry fire. If the owner says no, i just say "well, that's why i ask." However, I would hesitate to buy a gun without feeling the trigger.

A few weeks ago I was at a show standing around a table while my friend bought a shotgun. While waiting i noticed another one of his guns and thought "That's a funny looking .410." So i picked it up, shouldered it, looked at it some more, then looked at the tag. $2400. For some funny looking pump action .410. I was surprised i DIDN"T get yelled at. Mind you, i always pick guns up and set them down like they're made of crystal and worth a million dollars, but i think that's just being respectful of someone elses property.

 

[Seancass]

I think if the guy would have just asked if the OP needed some help , this would have been a rather short thread that may have ended in a sale , JMHO .

I think you're absolutely right. The seller's actions appear completely unjustified.

 

[tatters]

Even if the "no touch' policy is an unwritten thing, the dealer shouldn't have been so rude.